Still alive...

Are you looking for tips on how to get started as a comic/manga artist? Maybe you're looking for feedback on works you've already created. Then this is the forum for you! (Note: Ported from Gomanga.com)

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Peregrin
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Post by Peregrin » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:43 am

Gardenia wrote: The lady licking the sword was intended to be a yandere so Stra_B tried to illustrate that within this pic, although subtly isn't a main factor in achieving that depiction. What tips would be helpful in bettering that intention?

Now that I think about it, the shading of the face always seems to contribute to the subtly or animation in a character's facial expression. Would you think it helpful if the shading would amplify the facial expression and relieve the stiffness? Or perhaps their smile is the problem to the facial subtly.

Thank you for critique, though. I would appreciate if you can give us some tips as well. : )
Ah, I see the yandere potential. However, I think there's a fine line between expressions based on the position of the eyebrows. Right now, the yandere doesn't look crazy really, and the eyebrows make her look more pleasantly surprised or somehow sympathetic than crazed. I'm not an artist, so I can't really say how you can fix this issue, but maybe you can look at the eye-eyebrow relationships on yandere characters and try to figure out the major characteristics involved in those. Maybe something like wider eyes and more arching in the eyebrow or whatever.

I also think the eyepatch dude in the top right is more static in his expression due to his eyes rather than the rest of his face. Again, play around with it to see what you get. (And sorry if I'm totally wrong about this).

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StrateryB
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Post by StrateryB » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:44 am

Peregrin wrote:Ah, I see the yandere potential. However, I think there's a fine line between expressions based on the position of the eyebrows. Right now, the yandere doesn't look crazy really, and the eyebrows make her look more pleasantly surprised or somehow sympathetic than crazed. I'm not an artist, so I can't really say how you can fix this issue, but maybe you can look at the eye-eyebrow relationships on yandere characters and try to figure out the major characteristics involved in those. Maybe something like wider eyes and more arching in the eyebrow or whatever.

I also think the eyepatch dude in the top right is more static in his expression due to his eyes rather than the rest of his face. Again, play around with it to see what you get. (And sorry if I'm totally wrong about this).
She's not exactly meant to look crazy, more sympathetically sweet than crazy. Her eyebrows are going to be in that position a lot (now that I think about it, that's really the only way I draw her eyebrows orz), though I want her to be a yandere, I'm trying to configure her in a way that she doesn't look like other yanderes.

Because the story is heavily influenced by the stereotypical hero/villain scheme, she was meant to contradict the way she looks. People believing she's a hero because of her sweet, sympathetic expressions when she is indeed a villain.

Drawing expressions seems to be one of my biggest problems though, I think more specifically for women. All my women look the same >.>

Nothing wrong if you're wrong (not sure if you are), at least you're giving us your opinion.

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Post by Gardenia » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:20 am

StrateryB wrote:
Peregrin wrote:Ah, I see the yandere potential. However, I think there's a fine line between expressions based on the position of the eyebrows. Right now, the yandere doesn't look crazy really, and the eyebrows make her look more pleasantly surprised or somehow sympathetic than crazed. I'm not an artist, so I can't really say how you can fix this issue, but maybe you can look at the eye-eyebrow relationships on yandere characters and try to figure out the major characteristics involved in those. Maybe something like wider eyes and more arching in the eyebrow or whatever.

I also think the eyepatch dude in the top right is more static in his expression due to his eyes rather than the rest of his face. Again, play around with it to see what you get. (And sorry if I'm totally wrong about this).
She's not exactly meant to look crazy, more sympathetically sweet than crazy. Her eyebrows are going to be in that position a lot (now that I think about it, that's really the only way I draw her eyebrows orz), though I want her to be a yandere, I'm trying to configure her in a way that she doesn't look like other yanderes.

Because the story is heavily influenced by the stereotypical hero/villain scheme, she was meant to contradict the way she looks. People believing she's a hero because of her sweet, sympathetic expressions when she is indeed a villain.

Drawing expressions seems to be one of my biggest problems though, I think more specifically for women. All my women look the same >.>

Nothing wrong if you're wrong (not sure if you are), at least you're giving us your opinion.
Actually I thought his eyes kind of make him look like he's on crack. LMAO XD But yeah, I do understand what you mean. His eyes are very lazy in comparison to his eyebrows (that come off in a more cheerful arc) so it really makes his expression unbalanced and subtle.
Yeah, thank you, I'll experiment! Of course, I also believe the arch of his smile is also contributing to that mishap so I'll also concentrate on that.

Ah, you don't have to be an artist to depict minor/major flaws in an artwork! Besides, I'm very surprised that although you're not an artist, your feedback is very constructive! : )

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Post by Reven » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:06 am

The problem with the women is that their eyes are all very much alike.

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StrateryB
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Re:

Post by StrateryB » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:19 am

Image

Just a big junk load of doodles/sketches I've done out of boredom. Some are fairly old, like the entire bottom row. The ones at the top are newer, so it really does just go newer (top) to older (bottom). I think with the ones at the top right, you can my practice with the jaw. The chibis are just something I'm working on, I specifically placed it in the middle for the watermark (Sorry, I've had my art stolen before so...).

Might upload some in better quality, depends on how much I like it.
Vocaloid, Axis Powers Hetalia, and a bunch of OCs (I seriously need to practice this group considering the fact that I usually only draw the characters from my stories with Gardenia....)
Reven wrote:The problem with the women is that their eyes are all very much alike.
Actually all the females were designed with different eye shape, you can see the difference better in the chibi doodles above (although for one of the girls-the one on top- it's really hard since the quality is terrible.) and from Meliona's drawing which I'm currently coloring. Funny that you mention that though, because I'm also making a little chart of my character's eye shapes, color, etc. Just in time huh? I'm sorry I seriously fail, it's so hard to tell what's what in my drawings for others >>

Well, I was done with coloring Meliona's drawing but then I'm an oaf and exited without saving, so now I have to start over. There goes three hours of work....And it makes it painfully obvious who the worst artist is (but I guess I have to work harder, in an optimistic light?)
On another note, Meliona and Gardenia tell me that one of the characters for the collaboration, the main male, is difficult to draw, so I might make a few character reference sheets. It's kind of ironic because I based his design on making it simple for them to draw him, but I guess it backfired.

Thanks for the feedback guys, really appreciate it considering that I don't really show my art much if you would call it art, ha ha.)

Peregrin
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Re: Still alive...

Post by Peregrin » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:43 am

I think overall that the face/head proportions are better, but one more comment: The guy in the middle of the bottom row (the brightest image of the bunch with the scar going through his left eye) seems to have too wide a neck. The hair you have extending from the back of his neck goes bizarrely far out and makes his overall head look misshapen. I think he'd look fine if you just brought the hair closer to the neck. Otherwise, I definitely see improvement.

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Re: Still alive...

Post by StrateryB » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:17 am

Peregrin wrote:I think overall that the face/head proportions are better, but one more comment: The guy in the middle of the bottom row (the brightest image of the bunch with the scar going through his left eye) seems to have too wide a neck. The hair you have extending from the back of his neck goes bizarrely far out and makes his overall head look misshapen. I think he'd look fine if you just brought the hair closer to the neck. Otherwise, I definitely see improvement.
Oh, that one is pretty old, drawn....around December 31. I'm pretty sure around that time, Gardenia helped me out with necks and hands(?), can't remember...
But I'll try to keep in mind that the neck shouldn't be that thick, should go around where the ear is right? (at least I think..). I'm guessing the overall head is my main problem (eyes, chin, jaw, neck, etc.).

I think I remember the dates of each though, if that helps..
The top two on the left and middle were drawn today (well, technically yesterday, but whatever, screw time zones right now).
The one on the top right, I'm not sure...
Middle row, left, probably around January 29.
Middle row, middle (chibis) recently, last week.
Middle row, right, random times each week (mainly around January 28-February 1).
Bottom row, left, January 16.
Bottom row, middle and right picture, December 31.
And those little things at the bottom, the more I look at it, the more confused I get. I know they're the characters form our collaboration project, but it's such low quality I can't even tell anymore.

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Re: Still alive...

Post by Peregrin » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:26 am

StrateryB wrote:
Peregrin wrote:I think overall that the face/head proportions are better, but one more comment: The guy in the middle of the bottom row (the brightest image of the bunch with the scar going through his left eye) seems to have too wide a neck. The hair you have extending from the back of his neck goes bizarrely far out and makes his overall head look misshapen. I think he'd look fine if you just brought the hair closer to the neck. Otherwise, I definitely see improvement.
Oh, that one is pretty old, drawn....around December 31. I'm pretty sure around that time, Gardenia helped me out with necks and hands(?), can't remember...
But I'll try to keep in mind that the neck shouldn't be that thick, should go around where the ear is right? (at least I think..). I'm guessing the overall head is my main problem (eyes, chin, jaw, neck, etc.).
This sort of thing really depends on your perspective. For a straight profile view, there should be some neck extending past the end of the ear (using my own head as a model). However, as the head turns toward the observer, the amount of visible neck will diminish until the observer and subject are looking at each other head-on. I'd recommend becoming familiar with the average distance from, say, the earlobe to the back of the head and then practicing the change in this as the head turns both toward and away from the observer. If you were to redraw the picture I pointed out in my last post as though it were a strict profile, I don't think you would need to change the neck's width at all (i.e. you'd just redraw the face as a profile). Obviously, though, in the real world, the face does not move independently from the neck. I think that's where your problem was coming from. If this is hard to visualize from my explanation, try standing sideways in front of a mirror and slowly turn your head without turning your body until you are staring at your reflection. Note how the amount of neck visible relative to the ears diminishes as you turn your head more.

But if that was from December, then you've probably already improved your technique. I just wanted to try explaining why the new images are better than the old ones, because this neck problem also occurred in your collaboration drawing. Either way, I hope this helps.

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Re: Still alive...

Post by yesterdayshero » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:25 pm

I like the vocaloid one awesome shading...I see you got to inking some of these
ImageImage

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Re: Still alive...

Post by StrateryB » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:08 am

Peregrin wrote:This sort of thing really depends on your perspective. For a straight profile view, there should be some neck extending past the end of the ear (using my own head as a model). However, as the head turns toward the observer, the amount of visible neck will diminish until the observer and subject are looking at each other head-on. I'd recommend becoming familiar with the average distance from, say, the earlobe to the back of the head and then practicing the change in this as the head turns both toward and away from the observer. If you were to redraw the picture I pointed out in my last post as though it were a strict profile, I don't think you would need to change the neck's width at all (i.e. you'd just redraw the face as a profile). Obviously, though, in the real world, the face does not move independently from the neck. I think that's where your problem was coming from. If this is hard to visualize from my explanation, try standing sideways in front of a mirror and slowly turn your head without turning your body until you are staring at your reflection. Note how the amount of neck visible relative to the ears diminishes as you turn your head more.

But if that was from December, then you've probably already improved your technique. I just wanted to try explaining why the new images are better than the old ones, because this neck problem also occurred in your collaboration drawing. Either way, I hope this helps.
Ha ha, you don't know how much this helps!
Thanks for the detailed explanation, it makes SO much sense.
yesterdayshero wrote:I like the vocaloid one awesome shading...I see you got to inking some of these
Thanks you, and yeah, I attempted to ink.
But my hands are very unsteady, so I don't ink often.

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Re: Still alive...

Post by yesterdayshero » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:45 am

Practice makes perfect "B"... so you think of going pro or is this still a hobby?
ImageImage

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StrateryB
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Re: Still alive...

Post by StrateryB » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:30 am

True, true....

I remember I had a very long debate with myself on whether I wanted to pursue art or something else, and in the end, I decided on keeping it a hobby.
I would rather create web manga/web comics than sign my stories to a company, more freedom that way. That, and I'm thinking about anthropology, sociology, or something to do with English, interests in psychology and English have peaked tremendously over the past year. Although a career in art would be a dream job...

Then again, I've still got two years ahead of me before I think of what I want, as unreliable as that sounds, ha ha.

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Re: Still alive...

Post by StrateryB » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:33 pm

Image

A collaboration between Meliona and myself.
Art by Meliona
Colors by StrateryB

She drew the characters out of memory, so they're not too accurate (especially my half), but I know that won't bother most people anyway. It was kind of hard to follow the lines because this is the first time I've ever collaborated with someone other than Gardenia, but it was fun (that and some lines were pretty sketchy, but that's fine). And now...it is painfully obvious who the worst artist is *fails*
I'm sorry, I'll work harder to get to their levels...

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Re: Still alive...

Post by yesterdayshero » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:22 pm

boobs... :echiboo:
ImageImage

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Re: Still alive...

Post by StrateryB » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:24 am

Image

Image

Image

.............

yesterdayshero wrote:boobs... :echiboo:
XD
Because we had to.

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