Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

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LegendaryKroc
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by LegendaryKroc » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:29 am

Well, this is gonna be a doozy...
brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:17 am
Yes. It does. What makes you think I changed my mind about that? And I would add that Teddy never asked to be injected with succubus blood or reaper ectoplasm. That was forced on him so in many ways he's just as much a victim as everyone else. The difference is I'm not equating this with rape.
I didn't, but after you stopped replying to me about the clothes I just assumed you didn't have an answer to my assertion that skimpy dressing is not an in-the-blood thing for succubi. As for the other things... It may not have been his choice to become a hybrid succubus or a half-and-half demon/angel thing, but everything else is his own doing. He didn't lose his moral agency the moment his chest grew a pair of funbags.
brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:17 am
Are you still going on about Teddi having sex with Pandora? She did that to get under her skin, but there's nothing incestuous about sleeping with a step parent unless that person is also a blood relative. And seeing as how Pandora is an ageless succubus whether this constitutes as underage sex is a moot point too. Besides this has nothing to do with succubus pheromones and how it makes someone instantly desirable. If you really want to go down the rabbit hole of mind altering substances then I suppose people who are on anti-psychotic medication should be taken off of it because it's wrong to force someone to be sane.
What the hell are you even talking about?! The gulf of difference between using over-the-counter medicine to suppress psychotic behaviour and using what may as well be a biological weapon to make people want to have sex with you regardless of whether they actually wanted to before spans continents. If you're going to engage in whataboutism, at least do it right.

And for the record: No, smart guy, I'm not "going on" about Pandora's "prank" on Teddy. I'm talking about THIS strip, where Ilsa is revealed to be Pandora's mom in the middle of an extreme sadist-masochist torture-as-punishment run. Apparently you missed the subtext of that one.
brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:17 am
And I would agree if Teddi or Teddy's pheromones knocked out everyone they encountered and they proceeded to have sex with them. Roofies incapacitate the victim so they are never willing participants. Now observe Daisy in action. http://www.dangerouslychloe.com/strips- ... -way-worse She is jumping Teddi as soon as she gives her permission to act. It's the same in the very next strip when she pays a visit to the rest of Daisy's gang. Pheromones aren't roofies.

If rewiring people's minds bothers you this much I suggest you never watch Code Geass. Or maybe you should since Lelouch Lamperouge never uses his power to compel people to sleep with him, but has no qualms about violence and mass murder.
Apparently you missed the part where I said it could just be about people being rendered too drunk to consent. That's not the same as being knocked out.
brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:59 am
You wouldn't know it from the responses on this board. Charity groped Teddi's breast and now she's a vile sex offender.
I for one never considered her such, but that plot point was still really fucking stupid and I wondered why she didn't just grab a blanket.
brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:59 am
Teddi had a body comparable to Chloe's so it was easy enough for her to believe that they were lusting after her for that. They are high school boys after all. And Teddy was such a high school recluse I doubt he knew all that much about Daisy and her friends to know their sexuality so why would their sudden attraction be any crazier than everything else that happens in Teddy or Teddi's life?
How about the part where Daisy went from beating the snot out of Teddy to swapping spit with her in a matter of moments, while ranting about being willing to have a threesome? That should have been a major red flag.
brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:59 am
We're arguing something magical that has nothing comparable in the real world. You claim that they could never consent because they weren't truly in their right mind, but who's to say what that truly is? Neither of us know what's in somebody's mind or heart. Perhaps there is some desire deep down and the pheromones unlock it. Tell me something is Jacqui a victim too since she was a nerdy girl until Chloe altered her settings leaving her boy crazy? Jacqui isn't complaining and neither are the so-called other victims. If you want to call it rape that's your lookout, but if none of people who've been with Teddi or Teddy care to press charges because they genuinely enjoyed the time they had then there is no case. And that's really the difference between them and real victims of sexual assault. You might want it to be that way since it fits in with your own narrative. That doesn't appear to be how this story is playing out, but do feel free to hate read and complain.
Superman's entire existence is something that cannot possibly happen in real life, and never once have the people who've written him used that as an excuse for him acting like a dick. So enough of this "IT COULDN'T POSSIBLY HAPPEN" bullshit. As for Jacqui? She hasn't realised there WAS a change. She doesn't know there's anything to complain about. Likewise with the bullies: they DON'T REALISE IT'S HAPPENING. They can't complain if they don't know what happened to them. If Teddy told them to jump off a cliff, and they did, would you say they secretly always wanted to?

And as for that comment about hate reading and complaining? Take that superior attitude and shove it. Liking this comic's current direction does not make you better than us.
Fereshte wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:25 am
LegendaryKroc wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:03 pm
It doesn't come off to me like Dave is TRYING to write material that tacitly supports rape by exploitation of inability to consent. It's purely that he's been too lazy to actually take a look at the implications of Teddy's actions. And even if we're about to have Teddy have such a realisation, this has been going on for too long without any introspection, so it's pretty freaking late for that.
I agree that I don’t think Dave is intentionally writing a main character who is a rapist. BUT that he (he?) has been so flippant about the concept of consent is disconcerting and makes for a very problematic comic. One can’t help but wonder what Dave’s own views on consent is, if he can’t even be bothered to address the on going issue here. Even a side character making a comment would at least let us, the reader, know that Dave understands this is rape. And I agree that I don’t see Teddy coming to a realization soon because it would make for a VERY dark turn in the comic—Teddi/y realizing they have raped multiple people, even without that being their intent, would be horrifying for him/her. And it’s true, this content would be better served for a darker comic rather than being treated as a joke.
He doesn't care about what we post here, apparently, so why would it phase him?

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by dmra » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:05 am

brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:59 am

You wouldn't know it from the responses on this board. Charity groped Teddi's breast and now she's a vile sex offender.

Tell me something is Jacqui a victim too since she was a nerdy girl until Chloe altered her settings leaving her boy crazy? Jacqui isn't complaining and neither are the so-called other victims. If you want to call it rape that's your lookout, but if none of people who've been with Teddi or Teddy care to press charges because they genuinely enjoyed the time they had then there is no case. And that's really the difference between them and real victims of sexual assault. You might want it to be that way since it fits in with your own narrative. That doesn't appear to be how this story is playing out, but do feel free to hate read and complain.
So you don't think somebody who groped a person who was clearly in no state to protest or complain was a "vile sex offender"? Do you object to the "vile" or "sex offender" part of that?

Oh and you mean this Jacqui. The one who, even with Chloe's playing with her settings, felt regret about the "questionable choices" she'd made. Perhaps if she knew why she'd made them she might be complaining.
http://www.dangerouslychloe.com/strips- ... ed_my_life

And how can you be so sure that any of the other victims "genuinely enjoyed" anything? Since they weren't in their right mind owing to the pheromones. Did the first victim enjoy the idea of hurting herself because Teddy suggested it or because it was something deep down she wanted to do anyway?

http://www.dangerouslychloe.com/strips- ... -your-head
Last edited by dmra on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Spidrift
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Spidrift » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:07 am

I know what black comedy is. But if this is meant to be black comedy, then I just don’t think that it’s very good black comedy. And honestly, I'm not convinced that’s the actual intent.
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Cortez
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Cortez » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:12 am

And for the record: No, smart guy, I'm not "going on" about Pandora's "prank" on Teddy.
Though that was pretty fucked up too.

renmei
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by renmei » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:29 am

Spidrift wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:07 am
I know what black comedy is. But if this is meant to be black comedy, then I just don’t think that it’s very good black comedy. And honestly, I'm not convinced that’s the actual intent.
Sure, it's fine not to like it. But that is what it is. I'm curious what you think the actual intent is?

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by dmra » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:06 am

Can't speak for Spidrift but the most recent official statement of what the comic is about I can find is from the Kickstarter page.

"Dangerously Chloe is a spin-off of Eerie Cuties, and is written by David Lumsdon and currently drawn by Jason Waltrip. It follows Chloe, who now attends a succubi-only school in Hell itself! She’s brought back to earth after Teddy, a geeky high school kid, mistakenly makes a pact with an ancient statue that should doom his soul to Hell. But Chloe's found a loophole: she can save him if she helps him fall in love fast. Will she succeed, and what will her teachers from Hell think of this?"

Which doesn't really seem to fit what's been happening in the comic for the last three years or so which suggests that either even the creators don't know what the intent is anymore or can't be bothered to tell anybody.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Fluffy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:22 am

brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:17 am
LegendaryKroc wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:09 am
And not so long ago, on a forum very much like this one, you tried to argue that Teddi's repeatedly dressing in skimpy outfits was something you could blame succubus blood & reaper ectoplasm for (No, I'm not letting that go.) against his own stated habit of dressing however he damn well pleases. Does succubus blood just excuse EVERYTHING he does to you?
Yes. It does. What makes you think I changed my mind about that? And I would add that Teddy never asked to be injected with succubus blood or reaper ectoplasm. That was forced on him so in many ways he's just as much a victim as everyone else. The difference is I'm not equating this with rape.
The succubus blood injection was forced upon him, sure - but it was to save his life from a lust starved Chloe, who was trying to screw/kill him; so, I can overlook that moment - as there was really no other course of action to take. The reaper blood, though - yeah; Kimmy was very much out of line for pulling that stunt, seeing as she did it strictly out of curiosity/selfish reasons.

In regards to the clothes, succubus blood influencing Teddy's clothing choices really doesn't make any sense; as - if the succubus blood hot wired Teddy's brain into thinking provocative/sexy outfits were practical for sexy bodies, he wouldn't have gone out of his way to dress his baby sister (who was herself a full grown succubus, at that point in time) in very chaste/humble attire.

Unless the succubus blood has an on/off switch that Teddy can control (which it doesn't seem to be the case); there'd be no reason that his idea of 'sexy clothes are awesome!' would change based on who is wearing them.
Last edited by Fluffy on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Spidrift
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Spidrift » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:57 am

renmei wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:29 am
I'm curious what you think the actual intent is?
I think, insofar as there is any coherent thought at all, it’s meant to be a wacky(TM) teenage sex comedy with the added bonus of jokey off-the-shelf supernatural stuff. But mostly I think that at this point Dave01 is making shit up as he goes along within the loose framework of the original description, which includes using various of his stock comedy elements, which unfortunately include a bunch of stuff about questionable consent being hilarious. This isn’t so bad when it just involves blindfolds or drunkenness as in certain other comics, but unfortunately combines with ideas about supernatural mind control and magic pheromones to get downright sleazy.

(I mean, Alex with a blindfold in SotR made some readers twitchy, but mostly stayed just about in the realm of comedy. And I’d now bet small amounts of money that certain drunk scenes and the bit where Amber blindfolded Gary in Ma3 were Dave01’s idea, but they were all things where one could believe that the “victim” would consent, or at least forgive, when they were compos mentis. But this magic nonsense is akin to jokes about roofie-ing totally unwilling victims.)
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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by brasca » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:25 am

Gotoh wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:33 am
brasca wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:17 am
I would agree if Teddi or Teddy's pheromones knocked out everyone they encountered and they proceeded to have sex with them. Roofies incapacitate the victim so they are never willing participants. Now observe Daisy in action. Now observe Daisy in action. She is jumping Teddi as soon as she gives her permission to act.


You mean the girl who couldn't give proper consent, because she was being compelled by supernatural influence? A point which Teddy and the comic made apparent in the very strip you linked to.

'Shimoneta' also dealt with the matter of consent by having the two lead characters discuss it, concerning Anna's lust for Tanukichi. Anna wanted him to bone her, in no uncertain terms. But he refused because her sheltered upbringing left her unable to properly distinguish what her true feelings were. She thought she was in love, not realizing she was just horny.

Daisy's case is similar, in that she's horny for Teddy but she doesn't know why. The difference being, Daisy and her friends are enthralled, whereas Anna had no understanding of her body's urges, due to being sexually repressed by her parents.
I also noted that Teddy has been altered as well. Although Teddy continued to believe that the changes were just on the outside I believe the succubus blood affected his mind as much as the others. In today's strip Teddy is acting the same way he did when Naomi confronted him in the shower. He's thinking more rationally and concluding that Naomi is not herself. Teddi on the other hand was probably subconsciously motivated to choose the most sexually gratifying solution. Now you might think that Teddy is even more of a hybrid than before since there's angel blood too, however, it seems as though there is now a split personality acting all on it's own. Incubus Teddy for lack of a better name seems to be sexually motivated, however, his human side resurfaces when the possibility of pregnancy comes up which is interesting. Incubus Teddy seems to prefer men who he cannot impregnate and angelic Teddi seems to be avoiding sexual activity with men for fear of getting herself pregnant, but perhaps there is something else. Maybe Teddy and Teddi could lose their powers because a pregnancy would drain them.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by odalzara » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:00 am

Gotoh wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:25 pm
dmra wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:37 pm
I think that is unfair on Dave. Faith in the MC universe was in a similar position to Teddy - unknowingly using a magical power to seduce people - and it was always made clear that that was a bad thing for her to be doing. Tiff for one suspected it which was one reason why she adopted the Masked Avenger persona. And when it became clear to Faith that that was what she had been doing she regretted it immediately.
There's one other key difference: TCampbell described it as a mental "suggestion," not outright control. The girls Faith hit on still had the ability to either consent, or turn her down (as we saw with Tiff, Mel, Layla, and the student council).

The same can't be said for Teddy. Once anyone gets a dose of his pheromones that's pretty much it, 'cuz the victim immediately wants sex, regardless of their sexual preferences, or even if they hated him.

Faith also understood the importance of giving proper consent, because she said she wouldn't touch anyone unless they were willing. Which the comic's editor confirmed during forum discussion of that exact same strip, when he said Faith had a code of conduct and stuck to it (for the most part).

By constrast, Teddy still slept with Daisy and her friends despite knowing they were under some form of compulsion, because he tested it on Daisy while they were in the shower. Whereas Faith was given no indication that anything was amiss, so she assumed all the action she was getting was due to her looks and her popularity.

Which is why Faith is comparable to Layla, in that neither of them had reason to question why so many people wanted them. They were hot and they knew it. Teddy wasn't and he also knew it, the jocks and cheerleaders considered him a dork.

faith never regretted anything, in fact the whole psionic mindrape was never adress in the comic, just tiff impliying it one time

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Error of Logic
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Error of Logic » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:43 pm

In fairness, I seem to recall her being horrified to learn what she had been doing, back when Cerise told her.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Gotoh » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:20 pm

odalzara wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:00 am
faith never regretted anything, in fact the whole psionic mindrape was never adress in the comic, just tiff impliying it one time
Yes, she did and, yes, it was.

Faith was horrified by the implication, even though it'd been done subconsciously. She was on the verge of tears even. That's why she chose to abdicate her position to Mel and, later, cited it as part of the reason she didn't intervene in Mel's battle with Cerise.

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