Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

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Absinthe Green
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Absinthe Green » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:44 am

Fereshte wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:33 am
I think we’ve found where the writers have drawn their line. They’re okay with a woman raping other women (Teddi and the girls as school), or a man raping other men (Teddy with the boys at school), but when it comes to a man raping a woman, the writers put a stop to it (or so it seems. Who knows what the next page will show).
Enough with this False-Equivalency Rape-Obsession horseshit.

Equating DC's sexual highjinx-slapstick-goofballing with Actual Sexual Assault demeans & belittles what surviors of Actual Sexual Assault have been put through. Fuck that shit in the eye with a pointed stick.

Also: interesting to note - the ones that won't STFU about "Supernatural Rape"* seem perfectly cool with the fact that the Girljock posse were out to pummel Teddi into a bloody smear. They can't stop sending the message "Sex Bad. Violence Good."

*thank you for sharing ad nauseam what turns you on, but nobody asked.
Last edited by Absinthe Green on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I will remember the kisses / our lips raw with love / and how you gave me everything you had / and how I / offered you everything that was left / of me." - CB.

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by dmra » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:48 am

brasca wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:26 am
You seem to forget that time when Naomi walked in on Teddy in the shower and even went so far as to offer him a hand job. And don't blame Teddy for that. It was all Pandora's manipulation. Needless to say she didn't feel good about that later, but she got over it.

As for those other girls. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: That was a product of unwittingly getting a massive dose of pheromones during their ill-fated assault on Teddi. Teddi was never aware of those powers and thought the best solution was to let them have their way with her. Not the best idea, but I chalk that up to the succubus blood altering the mind even if Teddi claimed otherwise. You keep comparing the pheromones to rufies, but it's really not the same thing since all those do is knock people out so someone can have their way with them. These magical pheromones make them horny and active participants. So it's not the same thing.
No, I've not forgotten that Naomi had that encounter with Teddy in the shower. I didn't like it then and I still don't like it but since Teddy had no involvement in it then I wouldn't blame him in any way.

And she may have "got over it" but that isn't really what's important is it? It's the bit about her not feeling "good" that's important. She may have suffered by accident but she still suffered. And now she's going to suffer again but hey nothing bad has happened has it?

And as for those other girls I've said it before and I'll keep saying it Teddi may not have been aware that he was the cause (and nobody I think has ever blamed him for unintentionally releasing the pheromones) but he was responsible for everything that happened after it. And that includes repeated sexual encounters with girls over an extended period of time with the rather pathetic justification that "They're under a spell so I'll keep on having sex with them until it wears off".

And please can you please find a single time I've compared the pheromones to "rufies". Because despite you saying I keep doing it I can't remember ever doing it once. All I've ever said is what I said in my third paragraph. Teddi knew the girls were under some supernatural influence which was making them act in a way they normally wouldn't but he still kept on taking advantage of them.

And if nothing else do you not think it remotely strange that never once did Teddi confront or ask any of the people he knew who he thought might have done it or might have known how to stop it? You know do something that might have helped them rather than keep on using them as his own personal harem and bodyguards. Something he was doing for weeks if not months. After all he had enough of his old self there to realise that something was wrong in the first place so you'd think if he was remotely concerned about them he'd have made at least some proper attmept to get the free of the influence he knew they were under. One that didn't involve him having sex with them when he knew they weren't giving proper consent.

And even if you still insist that it was the succubus blood to blame for Teddi's appalling behaviour can you not at least admit that what happened to them was something bad? Or does them being bullies make everything all right?

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by dmra » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:52 am

Absinthe Green wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:44 am
Enough with this False-Equivalency Rape-Obsession horseshit.

Equating DC's sexual highjinx-slapstick-goofballing with Sexual Assault demeans & belittles what surviors of Actual Sexual Assault have been put through.
If anybody is demeaning and belittling anything it's the people who are trying to excuse what is going on in this comic.

Obviously nobody in real life is influenced by supernatural means but the characters in this comic are clearly unable to give informed consent to what goes on in this "goofballing". Which is pretty much the standard definition of sexual assault/rape.

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Absinthe Green
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Absinthe Green » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:10 am

dmra wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:52 am
If anybody is demeaning and belittling anything it's the people who are trying to excuse what is going on in this comic.
Bullshit.

1.) The characters are lines on paper &/ screens. Nothing bad or good is happening to anyone.

2.) "Yeah, we're perfectly cool with a four-on-one GBH dogpiling complete with black eyes, busted teeth & broken bones, but SEX?!? In a webcomic about Succubi?!? Ew. Gross. For Shame. Get That James Bond-level InCel Misogyny Ickiness Outta Here!" (Repeat Ad Fucking Nauseam).

3.) This is a comedy - every uncomfortable situation &/ crisis since the narrative's inception has been successfully diffused while being played for laughs.
"I will remember the kisses / our lips raw with love / and how you gave me everything you had / and how I / offered you everything that was left / of me." - CB.

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by dmra » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:20 am

Absinthe Green wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:10 am
dmra wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:52 am
If anybody is demeaning and belittling anything it's the people who are trying to excuse what is going on in this comic.
Bullshit.

1.) The characters are lines on paper &/ screens. Nothing bad or good is happening to anyone.

2.) "Yeah, we're perfectly cool with a four-on-one GBH dogpiling complete with black eyes, busted teeth & broken bones, but SEX?!? In a webcomic about Succubi?!? Ew. Gross. For Shame. Get That James Bond-level InCel Misogyny Ickiness Outta Here!" (Repeat Ad Fucking Nauseam).

3.) This is a comedy - every uncomfortable situation &/ crisis since the narrative's inception has been successfully diffused while being played for laughs.
1) So if something happens in fiction it isn't important or meaningful?

2) Talking about the four bullies then why would it matter what they were going to do to Teddi. They're not real people only "lines on paper &/ screens."

And I don't recall that much of people saying that what they were going to do to Teddi was justified just that nothing they were going to do justified what happened to them. And again the objection here isn't to sex it's to sexual activity where one of the parties can't give informed consent.

3) So sexual assault and rape are fine if it's played for laughs? OK I'll remember that.
Last edited by dmra on Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cortez
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Cortez » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:20 am

dmra wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:52 am

If anybody is demeaning and belittling anything it's the people who are trying to excuse what is going on in this comic.

Obviously nobody in real life is influenced by supernatural means but the characters in this comic are clearly unable to give informed consent to what goes on in this "goofballing". Which is pretty much the standard definition of sexual assault/rape.
It's why the comparison to ruffies was made.

Another comparison is someone taking advantage of a person who is too drunk to give proper consent.

The main point being that if one of the parties involved cannot give consent, it's rape.

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LegendaryKroc
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by LegendaryKroc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:09 am

brasca wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:26 am
dmra wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:23 am
brasca wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:23 am
Well looks like Teddy has regained control and not a moment too soon. Not like I thought anything bad was going to happen. 8-|
Nothing bad is going to happen! Something bad has already happened. Or have you not noticed that Naomi has been behaving completely out of character since she was effected by the pheromones? How do you think she's going to feel when she stops being effected by them? Proud of herself? Or maybe completely mortified by how she behaved but with no knowledge as to why?

And that's assuming that she is able to get control of herself back any time soon. The other girl victims of Teddi were under for weeks if not months and as far as we know still are.
You seem to forget that time when Naomi walked in on Teddy in the shower and even went so far as to offer him a hand job. And don't blame Teddy for that. It was all Pandora's manipulation. Needless to say she didn't feel good about that later, but she got over it.

As for those other girls. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: That was a product of unwittingly getting a massive dose of pheromones during their ill-fated assault on Teddi. Teddi was never aware of those powers and thought the best solution was to let them have their way with her. Not the best idea, but I chalk that up to the succubus blood altering the mind even if Teddi claimed otherwise. You keep comparing the pheromones to rufies, but it's really not the same thing since all those do is knock people out so someone can have their way with them. These magical pheromones make them horny and active participants. So it's not the same thing.
And not so long ago, on a forum very much like this one, you tried to argue that Teddi's repeatedly dressing in skimpy outfits was something you could blame succubus blood & reaper ectoplasm for (No, I'm not letting that go.) against his own stated habit of dressing however he damn well pleases. Does succubus blood just excuse EVERYTHING he does to you?

And before you go saying I can't prove it's not somehow consensual because I don't know 100% how the pheromones work? Maybe not, but this comic used parent-child incest as a punchline. Dave Lumsdon deserves no benefit of the doubt.

Also, if you want to grumble about the definition of roofies? Fine. Let's shift it to an analogy for getting someone drunk so they'll let you have sex with them while you yourself are sober. That's rape. Just ask Cortez, who beat me to the punch.
Fereshte wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:33 am
I think we’ve found where the writers have drawn their line. They’re okay with a woman raping other women (Teddi and the girls as school), or a man raping other men (Teddy with the boys at school), but when it comes to a man raping a woman, the writers put a stop to it (or so it seems. Who knows what the next page will show).
Those are well-documented Double Standards. Just ask TV Tropes.

Double Standard: Rape, Female on Female and Double Standard: Rape, Male on Male, for your convenience.
Absinthe Green wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:44 am
Enough with this False-Equivalency Rape-Obsession horseshit.

Equating DC's sexual highjinx-slapstick-goofballing with Actual Sexual Assault demeans & belittles what surviors of Actual Sexual Assault have been put through. Fuck that shit in the eye with a pointed stick.
...Wow. I found an argument defending this comic's existing direction that went beyond merely annoying or frustrating and actually pisses me off. You want to make a "This is demeaning to real life victims" argument? Well, two can play at that game.

Two of the most ridiculous superstitions surrounding human sexuality are the notions that one can be "cured" of being attracted to any kind of sex besides the opposite one, or "corrupted" in the opposite direction. This has no basis in scientific fact or any kind of real life situation, but it's one of the longest-running, ongoing malicious slanders and the source of many, many hate crimes against people of LGBTQ+ persuasion. And this comic, with its repeated and constant use of characters getting their sexuality mixed up through sex or contact with Teddy or his pheromones, could easily be argued as doing nothing to help with that.

Just look what happened to the bullies. They, presumably, were heterosexual. But an up-close blast of pheromones from Teddi later and wham bam sham-a-lam, they're either bisexual or straight with an obsessive exception for one girl. Brought on, again, by up-close contact with a SEX DEMON. And hell, even in the earliest days of the comic there was material you could call problematic if you wanted, like Pandora gloating about getting male angels to snog-fight for a chance to smell her hair, playing on their sexual repression.

And you guys remember Lacy, right? Yeah, she was a thing once. Remember we almost got a storyline about her and her sexual confusion? That she was originally saying her two mommies "raised her lesbian" or some shit like that and it would be revealed that actually, no they weren't? She just identified as a lesbian to be like them? Remember the almighty backlash that ensued, resulting in Dave permanently benching that plotline and the strip itself receiving an Orwellian edit to remove it? Well, it's the same principle. The idea that gay or lesbian couples shouldn't have kids because they would force them to share their orientation is a dirty stereotype that still sees use today and he should have known better than to think people would accept the implication it was happening without any direct indication that it wasn't, or at least a message from him clarifying such. And speaking of Orwellian edits, remember that plot arc from Eerie Cuties that included all the girls getting turned into blonde bimbos? Remember that infamous strip that had to be rewritten? Again, same principle.

Or forget orientation, because orientation doesn't equal automatic attraction. Personal taste is a key factor of attraction too. Shame that pheromones override that too.
Absinthe Green wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:44 am
Also: interesting to note - the ones that won't STFU about "Supernatural Rape"* seem perfectly cool with the fact that the Girljock posse were out to pummel Teddi into a bloody smear. They can't stop sending the message "Sex Bad. Violence Good."

*thank you for sharing ad nauseam what turns you on, but nobody asked.
I think what I like best about these asinine statements is that Absinthe Green felt the need to get some kind of dig in at us regarding whether Supernatural Rape "turns us on", quote-unquote, making gross assumptions about people he or she has never met in real life of the kind not seen since Vitocap repeatedly accused several of us of being science-denying, sex-hating, radical religious fundamentalists who were out of touch with reality. Stay classy, bro.

But it's like dmra said. We don't think the actions of the bullies are justified, we think that two wrongs don't make a right, and getting one's sexual preference rewritten in realtime is not a proportionate response. But by all means, keep twisting our words and making bullshit assumptions. You're the one who's going to look ignorant and misinformed.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Fluffy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:53 am

brasca wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:23 am
Well looks like Teddy has regained control and not a moment too soon. Not like I thought anything bad was going to happen. 8-|
It's a little too early to tell, though. For all anyone knows, Naomi will end up raping Teddy (which would be just as awful) or Teddy's going to pull that same stunt he pulled with the other cheerleaders.
brasca wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:26 am

You seem to forget that time when Naomi walked in on Teddy in the shower and even went so far as to offer him a hand job. And don't blame Teddy for that. It was all Pandora's manipulation. Needless to say she didn't feel good about that later, but she got over it.
There's a huge difference between a hand job and actively fornicating, though - considering the latter has a risk of pregnancy,
As for those other girls. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: That was a product of unwittingly getting a massive dose of pheromones during their ill-fated assault on Teddi. Teddi was never aware of those powers and thought the best solution was to let them have their way with her. Not the best idea, but I chalk that up to the succubus blood altering the mind even if Teddi claimed otherwise.
Still constitutes as rape, though; seeing as Teddi was well aware none of those girls were in their right mind and would never have given him the time of they if they were. There is no excusing that. The same applies to the jocks. Suddenly having them lust after Teddi, just because he was suddenly a hot girl should have alerted Teddi that something was amiss. Instead, Teddi used this sudden change to her advantage and proceeded to sleep with the lot of them.
You keep comparing the pheromones to rufies, but it's really not the same thing since all those do is knock people out so someone can have their way with them. These magical pheromones make them horny and active participants. So it's not the same thing.
The pheromones alter the victims' minds in order to make them infinitely more susceptible to the idea of having sex with someone they normally wouldn't give the time of day to (i.e. - make them so horny they don't think straight and just want to bone the person who whammied them). Whether they're awake or not doesn't matter; it's still an example of rape.

Cortez wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:20 am

The main point being that if one of the parties involved cannot give consent, it's rape.
And if they give consent while they're clearly under the influence - it's still rape.
Last edited by Fluffy on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LegendaryKroc
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by LegendaryKroc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:11 am

(Psst, Fluffy, minor error in your post re: quoting brasca's post. Otherwise agreed.)

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lordoffiling
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by lordoffiling » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:12 am

It could also be the moment when he realizes, “Oh shit, it was *me*!”
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Fluffy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:14 am

LegendaryKroc wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:11 am
(Psst, Fluffy, minor error in your post re: quoting brasca's post. Otherwise agreed.)
Noticed and fixed - thank you. :)
lordoffiling wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:12 am
It could also be the moment when he realizes, “Oh shit, it was *me*!”
This is Teddy we're talking about. If he hasn't figured it out by now, he likely never will.
Absinthe Green wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:44 am

Also: interesting to note - the ones that won't STFU about "Supernatural Rape"* seem perfectly cool with the fact that the Girljock posse were out to pummel Teddi into a bloody smear. They can't stop sending the message "Sex Bad. Violence Good."

*thank you for sharing ad nauseam what turns you on, but nobody asked.
To correct you - it's not about 'sex=bad; violence =good'; nor does violence 'turn me on' (what a ridiculous assumption to make, btw); it has everything to do with 'if you screw around with someone elses lover and act flippant when you're told to back off; best expect to get your ass handed to you'. This is especially true when it comes to hormonal teenagers - who react on feelings and not logic.

My sympathizing with the girl posse comes from the fact that Teddi was stealing all the guys for herself (with little to no regard that she may be stealing boyfriends from other girls) and, when confronted about it (by understandably pissed off girls), essentially told them to go f*ck themselves - they'd get their boyfriends back when she was done with them; resulting in the girl posse kicking her ass.

I know I'm in the minority here; but if a girl were to say that to me when it came to my boyfriend, I'd kick her ass, too. Is it the right course of action? No - of course not! But, I can still empathize. This is why I'm not particularly upset that this group of teenage girls acted like pissed off teenage girls when confronting competition who was using their boyfriends as her own personal playthings.
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Cortez » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:52 am

Fluffy wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:53 am

Still constitutes as rape, though; seeing as Teddi was well aware none of those girls were in their right mind and would never have given him the time of they if they were. There is no excusing that.

Same with the jocks.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Fluffy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:13 pm

Cortez wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:52 am
Fluffy wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:53 am

Still constitutes as rape, though; seeing as Teddi was well aware none of those girls were in their right mind and would never have given him the time of they if they were. There is no excusing that.

Same with the jocks.
Oh, of course - no question. I'll fix my post to reflect that.
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by lordoffiling » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:31 pm

Can we talk about pheromones for a minute?

I’ll use a personal example to start off: There was a girl who I used to work with some years ago. She was a smoker. Normally a “so what?” fact in my brain, except, she smoked the same brand as a girl who used to tease me relentlessly in high school.

When she would walk into my office after a smoke break, it was honestly all I could do to stay in my chair. And indeed, it’s a good thing I did, because if I’d stood up she’d see quite plainly how much I enjoyed her presence. I was not myself around her at those times, not even close. I wanted her more than anyone else I’ve ever wanted in my entire life, easily. She could have asked me for the keys to my car and I’d have given them to her just to make her smile.

All because of a weird chemical association that linked her smokes to strong sexual memories in my brain.

So the question is this: Let’s say my smoking coworker decided she wanted me. I’m married, I’d ordinarily say no, but let’s say she came in smelling like that. No contest, I assure you. Let’s even say, for the sake of this hypothetical, that she knew in advance how that smell affected me and decided she was gonna exploit it.

Is she raping me? Seems like it, right? A chemical scent she’s exuding is affecting the chemistry of my brain, after all. And I do have a strong incentive to say no, I’m married.

I don’t think it’s rape, though. My ability to say no is not being taken away in this scenario. I’m willingly ignoring it because I want sex.

Which brings us to the comic.

In what sense are succubus pheromones different from whatever turns you on? Menthol cigarettes, in my case, but you may have your own thing.
"Rather than simply enjoying these comics, we log in to these forums to argue about them. [...] We are some strange people, and I guess we have nothing better to do." - lordoffiling

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 12-11-18 I Want You So Bad

Post by Fluffy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:47 pm

@lordoffiling

Of course it wouldn't be rape in your case; because not only is there a mutual attraction (you for the cigarette smoke, her for whatever reason), you'd both be consenting adults making the decision to fool around.

In this comic, these teenagers are not in their right mind. they're not making informed decisions. None if these teenagers were interested in Teddy - ever; not until his sudden gender swap, that is. Then, it became almost instantaneous. Each one of them are being strongly influenced by a supernatural force to make them want someone they wouldn't normally want to be with; and - instead of questioning why these people who hated him them before suddenly want to bone his brains out, Teddi took advantage of their influenced state; making excuses why it's okay for him to do so (in the guys case - it was for Chloe's benefit. In the girls case - he was taking personal responsibility 'for their sake').

That is rape.
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