Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

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Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by Gotoh » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:19 pm

Fluffy wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:35 pm
All it takes is 'one time' to completely destroy someone's reputation. If Brooke was under some kind of influence, it could be excused - but, she wasn't. Brooke was in full control of her faculties.
If EC was meant to be realistic, I'd agree, but it isn't quite the same. It's a fictional series where things like people switching bodies, or body parts, and souls, has happened more than once and it's been reversed each time. That's why Layla's no longer trapped in her kid sister's body, it's why Laura's height and breast returned to her, and it's why Nina's consciousness is no longer trapped in the cursed mirror.

So even if Quintessa had been allowed to go through with swapping Kade's soul for Boodles, I'm sure there would've been a way to reverse it, just like the others. Meaning, Brooke would've had the chance to redeem herself. Fortunately, Quintessa was stopped before she could complete the ritual, so no harm, no foul.
dmra wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:30 pm
The point is that the balance between good and bad in somebody isn't just weighed up in the quantity of their deeds or misdeeds but the quality too.

And the difference between Brooke and Chloe is that Chloe gets things wrong by mistake, and she's trying to help.
The difference is: Brooke was actually helpful, Chloe isn't.

Sure, her intentions are good, but she's still done more harm to Teddy, his parents, and Jacqui, and has yet to rectify any of it. Even if you use the argument that his parents are allegedly happier apart, we only have Teddy's say-so on that matter. We never got to hear it from them. Chloe also nearly killed Teddy with a kiss, something which she said she wanted to learn to control so it wouldn't happen anymore.

The worst that can be said about Brooke is she let her hormones get the better of her once, and she was rightly called out on it. But she's never ruined anyone's life. Chloe has, several times.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by dmra » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:59 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:19 pm
The worst that can be said about Brooke is she let her hormones get the better of her once, and she was rightly called out on it. But she's never ruined anyone's life. Chloe has, several times.
If she never ruined anybody's life it wasn't for lack of trying. You seem to think that it doesn't matter that Brooke was willing to go along with Kade being killed/forced to share his body because it never happened. That's like saying it's OK to go out and drive drunk as long as you don't crash or hurt anybody.

The point you don't seem to want to recognise is that Chloe may do harm but it's almost never intentional. In contrast Brooke had time to think and consider her actions and still chose to go along with the plan to put another spirit in Kade's body. She fully intended to commit serious harm to Kade just to get in the good books of somebody she finds attractive.

Now this is a comic world where bad people do things and get away with them. Like Kade and Dio betraying Ace or Cerise taking over an entire school, imprisoning the teaching staff and attempting mass murder so I wouldn't expect Brooke to get any kind of punishment but saying "Nothing Brooke did reflects badly on her" is doing her character an injustice. She is somebody who has a dark side (a very dark side apparently) as well as a light one.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by Gotoh » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:33 pm

dmra wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:59 pm
If she never ruined anybody's life it wasn't for lack of trying. You seem to think that it doesn't matter that Brooke was willing to go along with Kade being killed/forced to share his body because it never happened.
That isn't what I'm saying at all. My point is, you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Was what she did terrible? Yes. I'm not disputing that, but you're making it out to be more than it was, which is why I said you're exaggerating. Kade was never in any danger of being killed, all that would've happened is his consciousness would've been replaced. Sorta like what happened to Nina while she was trapped in the cursed mirror.

Since the ritual wasn't completed, nothing really happened. Whereas Chloe has actually caused harm, regardless of her intentions. Just as Kade and Dio are guilty of what they're doing to Ace and covering it up so they can continue to do it. The differences speak for themselves.

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MissMadness
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by MissMadness » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:34 pm

I'm going to be completly honest Chloe, no matter how are hard she tries, she will screw over someone. It being unintentional makes it worst because that means she literally can't be around people without chaos happening. Brooke intentionally did something wrong yes, however it will never be as bad as what Chloe has done to other people. Chloe has ruined peoples lives. She's being kept on earth because of that very fact.

Brooke in comprasion that one willingful act hasn't done any damage to anyone except maybe her friends expecations and feelings of her, which for her was probably worst because she is the sensible one. No one is ignoring what brooke did but the aftermath of what they both did are on completly different levels.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by dmra » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:12 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:33 pm
That isn't what I'm saying at all. My point is, you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Was what she did terrible? Yes. I'm not disputing that, but you're making it out to be more than it was, which is why I said you're exaggerating. Kade was never in any danger of being killed, all that would've happened is his consciousness would've been replaced. Sorta like what happened to Nina while she was trapped in the cursed mirror.

Since the ritual wasn't completed, nothing really happened. Whereas Chloe has actually caused harm, regardless of her intentions. Just as Kade and Dio are guilty of what they're doing to Ace and covering it up so they can continue to do it. The differences speak for themselves.
So saying that somebody willing to let a friend undergo a dangerous -possibly lethal - or massively traumatic experience isn't a totally nice person is making a mountain out of a molehill is it? Interesting idea of "nice" you have there.

And how do you know Kade was never in any danger of being killed? All we know is that Quintessa was going to put Mr Boodles soul into Kade's body. Where Kade's soul was going to go is a complete mystery. All Brooke had to say about it was "maybe Kade will like being a cat". Which sounds more like a pathetic attempt at justifying something horrible than a calm analysis of a mystical rite.

We know from Ace's experience while Blair was in his body that he totally hated the experience. I'm pretty sure that if Kade and Mr Boodles were in the same situation it would have been even worse. And the nice caring Brooke was willing to let him go through that or worse just because she had the hots for Layla/Quintessa. You may be willing to forgive and forget this minor indiscretion but I think I'd trust Brooke in the future about as much as Skittles' friends and family would.

And again with the "since the ritual wasn't completed" there was no harm done. Perhaps not in your world but in mine people's intentions matter not just the end result. And lots of people agree with me which is why there are criminal offences for conspiracy to commit crimes or "attempted" crimes. When the thing with Kade started Brooke had no way of knowing that it wasn't going to happen and was entirely happy to go along with it. Kade having a narrow escape really doesn't get Brooke off the hook on this one.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by Gotoh » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:04 am

dmra wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:12 pm
And how do you know Kade was never in any danger of being killed?
Because I was able to link to at least two similar situations, neither of which resulted in the effected party's death. Nina got her body back from the mirror monster's, Layla got hers back from her kid sister, and from Quintessa. And, neither of them were traumatized afterward. So, based on similar occurrences, odds are, Kade would've been fine too.
dmra wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:12 pm
And again with the "since the ritual wasn't completed" there was no harm done. Perhaps not in your world but in mine people's intentions matter not just the end result. And lots of people agree with me which is why there are criminal offences for conspiracy to commit crimes or "attempted" crimes.
Again, we're not talking about the real world, were discussing a fictional series where souls and whatnot being swapped around can, and has repeatedly been undone. So I'm inclined to believe Kade's life was never in danger.

But if Brooke's such an irredeemably awful person (in your opinion) for one incident, then how can you possibly try to justify all the turmoil Chloe's caused? Because her "good" intentions hasn't fixed any of it and she hasn't even bothered to try.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by dmra » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:08 am

Gotoh wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:04 am
dmra wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:12 pm
And how do you know Kade was never in any danger of being killed?
Because I was able to link to at least two similar situations, neither of which resulted in the effected party's death. Nina got her body back from the mirror monster's, Layla got hers back from her kid sister, and from Quintessa. And, neither of them were traumatized afterward. So, based on similar occurrences, odds are, Kade would've been fine too.

But if Brooke's such an irredeemably awful person (in your opinion) for one incident, then how can you possibly try to justify all the turmoil Chloe's caused? Because her "good" intentions hasn't fixed any of it and she hasn't even bothered to try.
But you've ignored other "similar situations" both involving Ace, He was forced to host Blair for a while and hated it and was also made unhappy enough to turn to Kade and Dio for help when he was unknowingly sharing his body with Acina.

And I never said that Brooke was "irredeemably awful". I simply pointed out that she wasn't just a good person. I never denied that she did good things just pointed out that she also did one very very bad thing and that that shouldn't be ignored when judging her character.

As far as the comparison with Chloe goes. On at least one occasion that people have complained about we can use your argument that no lasting damage was caused. When she offered to go back again and put the thing with Abby and Teddy's parents right Teddy said not to bother because his parents were happier apart. http://www.dangerouslychloe.com/strips- ... gle_aspect. If Teddy was OK with it then using your own logic I don't see why the readers should get hot and bothered about it.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by Gotoh » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:27 am

dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:08 am
But you've ignored other "similar situations" both involving Ace, He was forced to host Blair for a while and hated it and was also made unhappy enough to turn to Kade and Dio for help when he was unknowingly sharing his body with Acina.
Because cohabitation isn't the same as usurpation. Ace still had his body, whereas Layla and Nina's consciousness was replaced by someone else's. That said, Ace wasn't traumatized from being stuck with Blaire, which was undone thanks to Tia.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:08 am
I never said that Brooke was "irredeemably awful". I simply pointed out that she wasn't just a good person. I never denied that she did good things just pointed out that she also did one very very bad thing and that that shouldn't be ignored when judging her character.

I wasn't ignoring what she did, I've acknowledged it several times and I'd still say it was relatively minor, comparatively speaking.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:08 am
On at least one occasion that people have complained about we can use your argument that no lasting damage was caused. When she offered to go back again and put the thing with Abby and Teddy's parents right Teddy said not to bother because his parents were happier apart. If Teddy was OK with it then using your own logic I don't see why the readers should get hot and bothered about it.
Are they really...? 'cuz we only have his say-so on that, we haven't seen whether it's true, or not.

Looking at that scene in context: Teddy was clearly doing damage control (notice his expression and what he says in the first two panels). Chloe's "help" had already created a rift in his family. Allowing her to do more would undoubtedly make things worse and, in panel 3, he wasn't willing to take that chance. He said that so she'd leave well enough alone.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by dmra » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:03 am

Since we don't know exactly what Quintessa had planned it is entirely possible that Kade would also be sharing his body so the examples stand. And as saw from the Layla/Quintessa battle arc that isn't always about peaceful co-existence.

Besides that when we're judging Brooke's actions we have to go by what she knew then not by what we know now. So since Layla hadn't at that point got her body back it can't possibly be used as a justification for her actions before that.

And I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about how serious either moving somebody's spirit out of their body to somewhere else or even potentially killing them altogether is.

And of course Teddy has no idea how his parents feel about their separation. You as a reader know much better. Or at least you think that on the basis of one incident Teddy decided that what you seem to think was a major trauma for him and Abby should stay as it was because Chloe couldn't possibly be trusted to try and put it right.

Oh and speaking of Abby you used the fact that Nina and her friends went to Twiggit for advice to suggest that this meant that things like Twiggett wanting to conduct experiments on her pupils wasn't a big issue. Well Nina and Chloe were best friends and Abby clearly loves Chloe so why won't you cut Chloe the same break as you grant Twilggit? Oh and you also mentioned how you thought Brooke's history of good deeds excuses her actions when it comes to Kade. But how about all the times we've seen Chloe being nice. Offering to let Nina drink her blood. Basically doing all the housework and cooking in Teddy and Abby's house.

Shouldn't her niceness count for anything if Brooke's is meant to?

meps98
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by meps98 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:28 pm

I don't think it's clear where this craving for men is coming from. Teddy maybe the body stating it and participating in it but it could simply be a manifestation of Teddi's desires, one that is being shared by Teddy. Just a few panels ago, each one was getting aroused by the other so Teddy clearly had a thing for girls then. If they share a mind, then they are, by definition, bisexual. Teddi is experiencing the sensual effects of Teddy's actions so the sexual drives and attractions can just as easily go the other way, from Teddi to Teddy.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by Gotoh » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:08 pm

dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:03 am
Since we don't know exactly what Quintessa had planned it is entirely possible that Kade would also be sharing his body so the examples stand.
Quintessa said she was replacing Kade's soul, when you replace something (i..e a light bulb, flat tire, etc.) you swap it out. Hence, "out withe old, in with the new" which we saw happen several times during EC.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:03 am
since Layla hadn't at that point got her body back it can't possibly be used as a justification for her actions before that.
Yes, she had, because Nina had already stolen Layla's body before and Layla got it back. Nina also had hers stolen by the mirror monster and Brooke helped lure it back into the mirror to save Nina. So there were at least two similar incidents that Brooke already knew of, both of which had already been rectified.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:03 am
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about how serious either moving somebody's spirit out of their body to somewhere else or even potentially killing them altogether is.

Because EC is a comedy/horror series, where situations like the one we're discussiing aren't considered unusual. Their school is surrounded by a magic field, one of the teachers has a cursed arm, and they keep a cursed mirror in the storage room. Need I go on...? Yet, you insist on judging the comic as though it were meant to be realistic. It isn't.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:03 am
you used the fact that Nina and her friends went to Twiggit for advice to suggest that this meant that things like Twiggett wanting to conduct experiments on her pupils wasn't a big issue. Well Nina and Chloe were best friends and Abby clearly loves Chloe so why won't you cut Chloe the same break as you grant Twilggit?
'cuz there's two major differences between Twiggit and Chloe: 1.) Twiggit repeatedly helped solve problems, which is why Nina and her friends trusted her. Chloe creates problems, or makes an existing problem worse. 2.) Twiggit gave useful advice. Chloe gives bad advice (see: her talk with Abby).

The same differences exist between Brooke and Chloe, because politeness and doing chores around the house isn't the same as being dependable in a crisis situation and getting things done. Brooke and Twiggit could be relied upon when their friends needed them, the same can't be said for Chloe. Why do you think Teddy didn't want Chloe to interfere any more than she already had?

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by dmra » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:27 pm

Point one. When you replace a light bulb do you put the old one somewhere safe or do you discard it in the rubbish. Replacing something doesn't necessarily mean keeping the old one it can just mean putting a new one in.

Point two I was talking about the struggle between Layla and Quintessa not the earlier incident with Nina borrowing Layla's body. But remind me again how happy was Layla about Nina doing that? Now imagine it had been meant to go on indefinitely which is what Quintessa planned for Kade and which Brooke was perfectly happy to help her achieve.

Point three. I'm not judging the comic as realistic at all.As the creators have said the pupils at CH are "monsters". They come from species that kill people. Faith, one of your heroes, was training as a monster hunter and was carrying a stake to use on Layla. As indeed was Tiff. Cerise teleported people into a volcano. In the beach episode bonus story Tiff and her rival had tracked a sea monster using a trail of unexplained drownings. So the concept of violence and death is an intrinsic part of the EC/MC worlds.

So judging Brooke on her desire to replace Kade's soul just to get in Quintessa's good books is absolutely justified in the comics own terms.

Point 4. So nothing Chloe does is good or useful but everything Brooke and Twiggit does is. Let's take one example you mentioned of Brooke's niceness. She allowed a hungry Layla to feed so you think she's marvellous. Chloe offers to do the same thing for Nina and you ignore it completely.

I think that says a lot about how selectively you're judging these characters.

Just one last word on the subject. You said Brooke's sins should be discounted because she did nice things like scaring off bullies. Well Chloe managed to save the entire human race from extinction. I think for that alone she deserves some gratitude. http://www.eeriecuties.com/strips-ec/Boobs_go_away!

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by Gotoh » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:10 pm

dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:27 pm
Point one. When you replace a light bulb do you put the old one somewhere safe or do you discard it in the rubbish. Replacing something doesn't necessarily mean keeping the old one it can just mean putting a new one in.
True, you toss a bad bulb when you replace it, but you don't throw away a flat if it can be patched up. And in each of the previous instances, the victim's soul/consciousness remained intact.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:27 pm
imagine it had been meant to go on indefinitely which is what Quintessa planned for Kade and which Brooke was perfectly happy to help her achieve.
No, she wasn't happy about it. Brooke tried to rationalize it, but she clearly knew it was wrong to allow Kade's soul to be replaced.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:27 pm
So judging Brooke on her desire to replace Kade's soul just to get in Quintessa's good books
Her desire was to be with Layla. If she could've done it without Kade being involved, she would have. She only went along with Quintessa's ritual because she allowed her hormones to overrule her conscience.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:27 pm
Let's take one example you mentioned of Brooke's niceness. She allowed a hungry Layla to feed so you think she's marvellous. Chloe offers to do the same thing for Nina and you ignore it completely.
Because there's a key difference that you've overlooked: Brooke actually did feed Layla, because it was necessary. Layla was blood starved. Chloe didn't feed Nina, because it wasn't necessary. Nina wanted chocolate, not blood, which is why she didn't even notice Chloe what was offering her. Aside from that, I agree it was a compassionate gesture.
dmra wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:27 pm
You said Brooke's sins should be discounted because she did nice things like scaring off bullies. Well Chloe managed to save the entire human race from extinction. I think for that alone she desderves some gratitude.
Two last points here: No, that isn't what I said. It's the exact opposite. I said one lapse of judgement doesn't discount all the good she'd done in the past. All it says about her is, she isn't perfect.

Second, in the scene you're using, Chloe wasn't even aware that a crisis was unfolding. All she cared about was wanting smaller boobs. The fact that it made Blair's connection to the orb go haywire 'til it shorted out was purely incidental. It was an accident, whereas Brooke and Twiggit's actions were planned.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by Fluffy » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:02 am

dmra wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:40 pm
Fluffy wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:44 pm
In other words, it doesn't matter how thoughtful/caring/helpful Brooke was in the past; that one instance where she was willing to stand aside when a friend was in harm's way - all because she was promised vampire nookie - taints her overall 'good girl' image.
Kade and Dio got a lot of flack in the bonus story where they kept quite about Ace transforming to Acina because they preferred having sex with her to letting a friend who had asked them for help know what was happening to him. At least Dio and Kade had the potential excuse that Acina was apparently a person entirely separate from Ace and they were helping her rather than him.
And it's an incredibly weak excuse, at that; given that Ace's situation is the equivalent of a split personality where the other personality can change the host body to better accommodate her needs when she's in control. Kade and Dio know this - but still take advantage of the situation to satisfy their own selfish desires and straight out ignore Ace's trauma over repeatedly waking up in drag because, hey, an easy lay is an easy lay.

As far as I'm concerned, they're no better than Brooke.
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 1-10-18 Craving for Men

Post by BlairFan » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:05 am

Charity is following the old saying "Cleanliness is next to godliness." ;)

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