Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

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dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by dmra » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:47 pm

I wouldn't say that the people who were being critical were throwing tantrums or trying to drown other people out. If anything I'd say that some of the people on the "positive" side - those who were labelling their "opponents" as "haters" and "trolls" - were the ones doing that. But that's something that's going to be subjective and really isn't worth restarting old fights over.

And I did realise that you qualified your statements but "at this stage" and '"love" are both rather meaningless.

As in the example I used people remained fans of Star Wars and loved it while not liking the second trilogy at all or hating some characters in it. Saying because they dislike some aspect of the series they can't be true fans pretty much means that nobody with any kind of critical faculties can be a fan. Unless you define "a fan" as somebody who likes every single aspect of something with no exceptions and is never critical of anything.

Admittedly Star Wars covered a much greater period of time than DC (I'm old enough to have gone to the cinema to watch the first film back in the 70s) but it has still been over five years since Chloe and Teddy's adventures started so saying that people who aren't, for example, ecstatic about the "Teddi having sex with everything breathing" story line aren't "fans" is a bit dismissive.

In my own case there are far more characters I like than dislike and there is enough stuff I do enjoy to make it just about worth while reading - even if there are an awful lot of times where I cringe or go "Oh no, not again!"

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Vitocap
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by Vitocap » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:34 pm

Mandy wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:47 pm
The forum has calmed down a lot; I was mostly annoyed and confused back when people came back week after week, month after month seemingly only to throw huge tantrums in the forums and drown out anyone who was still enjoying it. Eh, the past is the past though. People still on the forums now seem to like some aspects of the comic so meh *shrugs*
You're right about the forum. Haters and trolls aren't as vociferous these days as they used to be. I wonder why. Perhaps they realized that Dave doesn't pay any attention to their rumpuses and keeps on steering the story on the course he has long ago chosen?

Well, whatever the reason, it's all the better for us, I suppose. We, the true fans, tend to find the forum experience much more enjoyable without the irritating buzz of the "community of hatedom" (as Alexander Collins put it in a previous thread).
We, the old ghosts of Pizen Bluff, who still roam about this dead forum screaming imprecations at the characters and whatnot.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by Fluffy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:56 am

Vitocap wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:34 pm
You're right about the forum. Haters and trolls aren't as vociferous these days as they used to be. I wonder why. Perhaps they realized that Dave doesn't pay any attention to their rumpuses and keeps on steering the story on the course he has long ago chosen?

Or maybe it's because the person who was deliberately trying to start fights in the forums was banned for having a sock puppet account that they had used to attack people under two different names - which is a forum no-no. With that person silenced, people can now freely be critical about the direction the comics have been going in - and have healthy debates with others of opposing views - without having to get into a childish fight that lasts for pages on end.
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

Passing Through
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by Passing Through » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:55 am

So that little trip Chloe made down to hell has now made a victim of everyone else in the house. Chloe is exceptionally skilled at ruining the lives of people she claims to care about isn't she?

Anyway, young Pandy has a couple of potential outs here, being married and having that syringe of angel blood. Now, Cut-Thrust may not care about the first and may be enraged by the latter, but still.
lordoffiling wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:41 pm
Oh by the way: Anyone still want to theorize that Ilsa is Pandora’s mother?

I offer now as the time to bring that up.
Well 'Tighter!' strikes me as the sort of thing Cut-Thrust would say... And I did mistake one for the other hereabouts. Sooooooo... yeah, I'd say it's at least credible that they're related. Might not be mother-daughter of course, they could be sisters, or cousins or aunt and niece, the sky's the limit really.

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vampire hunter D
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by vampire hunter D » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:35 am

they ave different last names though. and considering what we know about succubus reproduction, I doubt they take their late-father's name
Pointless arguing is one of the three pillars upon which the Internet is built. The other two are of course cat pictures and porn.

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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by brasca » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:19 am

dmra wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:47 pm
I wouldn't say that the people who were being critical were throwing tantrums or trying to drown other people out. If anything I'd say that some of the people on the "positive" side - those who were labelling their "opponents" as "haters" and "trolls" - were the ones doing that. But that's something that's going to be subjective and really isn't worth restarting old fights over.

And I did realise that you qualified your statements but "at this stage" and '"love" are both rather meaningless.
I don't have a problem with arguing over plot points or the direction of the story. I'm just weary of the constant application of human morals to super natural beings and situations. Complaining about all the sex involved with Teddi's arc to find a mate with Chloe is fair enough, but this notion of oozing roofies that compelled everyone to screw her was so irritating I had to step away.

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by dmra » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:34 am

Well we did see with the bullies and the monster hunters that Teddi could use pheromones in situations where he was in danger so it's not entirely implausible that he was doing it at other times. But I'd agree that he wasn't doing in intentionally but suspect we'd disagree about how long it should have taken him to suspect that maybe he was having an effect on people.

The "oozing roofies" argument goes both ways though.

Plenty of people posting here have used the argument for example that Teddi's pheromones could explain why his school wasn't more credulous about his gender change. So if people are going to accept that he is using them when it's convenient for the plot it's going to be harder to argue that he's using them (albeit unintentionally) at other times which show him in a less good light.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by Gotoh » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:52 am

brasca wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:19 am
I'm just weary of the constant application of human morals to super natural beings and situations.
People aren't going to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing simply because cryptids sense of morality isn't the same as ours. There's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

But there are exceptions. For example: I don't take issue with Layla feeding on humans, since her victims are confirmed to be left alive and returned to their homes relatively unharmed after a memory wipe. One of the bonus stories in Vol.4 even implies that Tiff allows Layla to feed off her regularly. So in Layla's case, I figure 'no harm, no foul'.

But the same can't said for others, like Cerise, who tried to kill both her best friends, along with 7 other girls, over something as trivial as popularity - and was allowed to get away with it.
brasca wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:19 am
Complaining about all the sex involved with Teddi's arc to find a mate with Chloe is fair enough, but this notion of oozing roofies that compelled everyone to screw her was so irritating I had to step away.
Even though the comic explicitly told us that's basically what happened (hence, the arrow pointing at Teddy labelled: "real culprit right here")?

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Mandy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by Mandy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:29 am

dmra wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:47 pm
I wouldn't say that the people who were being critical were throwing tantrums or trying to drown other people out. If anything I'd say that some of the people on the "positive" side - those who were labelling their "opponents" as "haters" and "trolls" - were the ones doing that. But that's something that's going to be subjective and really isn't worth restarting old fights over.

And I did realise that you qualified your statements but "at this stage" and '"love" are both rather meaningless.
I don't think that it was intentional drowning out. I did see a fair number of people drop by the forums, groan that everyone on here was forever complaining then duck out. The thing is, you didn't see most of the people who were enjoying the comics at those times because bickering in the forums would ruin the good mood that the new strip may have otherwise put them in. Honestly, there were obvious fouls on both sides of those arguments; it was mostly rehashing the same stuff. People were being hyperbolic and crazy on both sides at times. I actually wasn't consistently on either side of those arguments... Generally I didn't even join them.

I wasn't actually saying that you aren't a fan. I was trying to explain what vitocap was saying, which seemed to be something different than what people were interpreting. As people well know, the series has changed drastically. Many don't like the series for what it has become. I'm sure that many like what it's become just as much or more than before the change. Vitocap was talking about the second group... Maybe I missed some line from vitocap saying people who didn't love the series weren't fans. I don't really feel like going back to reread everything.
This is all dull and irrelevant. I wasn't actually starting anything intentionally.

I consider myself a fan, but I never loved it persay. I don't really dislike any of the characters over much... I'm a bit frustrated with Kimmy, because she was so adorable and quirky at first and s/he is less so now.

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by dmra » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:43 am

Mandy wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:29 am
I wasn't actually saying that you aren't a fan. I was trying to explain what vitocap was saying, which seemed to be something different than what people were interpreting.
Thanks for the full reply.

I didn't think you were having a go at me personally or any of the "non-fans" either for that matter and I'm sorry if it came across that way. But in the past there were a lot of comments where people who were critical were labelled as "haters and trolls" (like vitocap's one here) rather than the more nuanced picture your comments addressed,

I was just trying to make the same point as you that there are more than two responses to something and it's possible to enjoy things - and even be a fan of them - while still being critical.

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Mandy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by Mandy » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:25 am

It never feels like I would get anywhere with Vitocap if I tried calling him out on trollishly calling people trolls. He definitely likes getting reactions from the more critical forum goers. I don't know if he's someone who just got frustrated by the forums complaining about something he liked and decided to amuse himself by pressing tensions in the forums... or maybe he just does it on a whim. *shrugs*

I don't really agree with his name calling, but I know a battle with no winners when I see it.

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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by brasca » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:09 am

Gotoh wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:52 am
brasca wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:19 am
I'm just weary of the constant application of human morals to super natural beings and situations.
People aren't going to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing simply because cryptids sense of morality isn't the same as ours. There's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

But there are exceptions. For example: I don't take issue with Layla feeding on humans, since her victims are confirmed to be left alive and returned to their homes relatively unharmed after a memory wipe. One of the bonus stories in Vol.4 even implies that Tiff allows Layla to feed off her regularly. So in Layla's case, I figure 'no harm, no foul'.

But the same can't said for others, like Cerise, who tried to kill both her best friends, along with 7 other girls, over something as trivial as popularity - and was allowed to get away with it.
Just when I thought I was out. Actually I would've responded sooner, but I've been away for a week.

I don't have a problem with anyone defending themselves from a predator, but intent matters. Succubi may need to feed, but if it's at the cost of human life then I'm thankful for angels and cryptid slayers. Teddi, however, has no idea she even has extremely suggestive pheromones.
Gotoh wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:52 am
brasca wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:19 am
Complaining about all the sex involved with Teddi's arc to find a mate with Chloe is fair enough, but this notion of oozing roofies that compelled everyone to screw her was so irritating I had to step away.
Even though the comic explicitly told us that's basically what happened (hence, the arrow pointing at Teddy labelled: "real culprit right here")?
And once again intent matters. Consider your personal favorite Faith. She was guilty of bullying others, but she never deliberately used mass hypnosis to get her way because she wasn't even aware she was using Artemis Academy's energy to influence people. And it's the same thing with Teddi. As far as she knows she has a body that boys and girls desire even without the pheromones because no one ever told her she had that ability. Chloe has been in a funk and non communicative, Pandora probably left out that part of the transformation for laughs, and it's not like she can find books on the subject. Moreover, why should Teddi think she has succubi powers since she doesn't have horns, wings, tail, and tail?

And it's all this "Teddi is evil" nonsense that irritates me because there's a lot of judgment without all the facts and someone thrust into a situation beyond his control.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by Gotoh » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:17 am

brasca wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:09 am
And once again intent matters. Consider your personal favorite Faith. She was guilty of bullying others, but she never deliberately used mass hypnosis to get her way because she wasn't even aware she was using Artemis Academy's energy to influence people.
Faith never bullied anyone. She pulled one prank, which she said was a hazing ritual at their school. Afterward, she was sociable with the Hellrunes to the point of asking Jacqui to sit in for her at a meeting.
brasca wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:09 am
And it's the same thing with Teddi.

No, it isn't. Faith had no idea that her powers were affecting anyone because there were no outward signs that the other students were acting any differently than usual. As far as she knew, they were acting of their own free will.

Teddy can't say the same, because he knows Daisy and her friends aren't acting like themselves and neither are those jocks. He confirmed it himself and his solution was to try screwing it out of their system. Whereas had Faith been aware that her powers were affecting the others, she wouldn't have touched them. That's two distinct differences right there.
brasca wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:09 am
And it's all this "Teddi is evil" nonsense that irritates me because there's a lot of judgment without all the facts and someone thrust into a situation beyond his control.
Because Teddy never told any of those jocks what he was really setting them up for, despite Chloe and Pandora both telling him what the probable outcome would be; especially since it nearly happened to him. So he can't claim ignorance there either.

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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by brasca » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:37 am

Gotoh wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:17 am
brasca wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:09 am
And once again intent matters. Consider your personal favorite Faith. She was guilty of bullying others, but she never deliberately used mass hypnosis to get her way because she wasn't even aware she was using Artemis Academy's energy to influence people.
Faith never bullied anyone. She pulled one prank, which she said was a hazing ritual at their school. Afterward, she was sociable with the Hellrunes to the point of asking Jacqui to sit in for her at a meeting.


You seem to be forgetting the part where Faith was literally twisting Melissa's arm. That's text book bullying. And the only reason she was sociable afterwards is she wanted to know their secrets.
Gotoh wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:17 am
brasca wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:09 am
And it's the same thing with Teddi.

No, it isn't. Faith had no idea that her powers were affecting anyone because there were no outward signs that the other students were acting any differently than usual. As far as she knew, they were acting of their own free will.

Teddy can't say the same, because he knows Daisy and her friends aren't acting like themselves and neither are those jocks. He confirmed it himself and his solution was to try screwing it out of their system. Whereas had Faith been aware that her powers were affecting the others, she wouldn't have touched them. That's two distinct differences right there.
Teddi knew something was amiss, but why should she think she was the cause? Remember the time Naomi offered to wash Teddy while he was in the shower. Strange that a girl who's often hostile towards him should walk in naked and go so far as to offer him a hand job. Then there were 4 girls who violently attacked Teddi and now they desire her. Teddi thinks Pandora or Ilsa are behind it and why not since this seems like their kind of torment. Perhaps Teddi should have pondered the matter more carefully, but her heart was in the right place and she didn't deliberately take advantage of the situation for her own pleasure and it's the same with Faith. She never knew she was tapping into the school's power to enhance her own psychic influence over the students and since learning this she's making a conscious effort to let others do their own thinking. Once Teddi knows better then it's up to her to stop immediately, but for now she's as ignorant as Faith was.
Gotoh wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:17 am
brasca wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:09 am
And it's all this "Teddi is evil" nonsense that irritates me because there's a lot of judgment without all the facts and someone thrust into a situation beyond his control.
Because Teddy never told any of those jocks what he was really setting them up for, despite Chloe and Pandora both telling him what the probable outcome would be; especially since it nearly happened to him. So he can't claim ignorance there either.
If Teddi was so indifferent to whether who lived or died she would've chosen the worst bully and fed him to Chloe within a week. Teddi tested out the best of the best hoping one would be able to endure and if Teddi told the winner that he was about to have the ultimate orgasm, but it might kill him, he'd still do it.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 18-06-18 A Truant Student

Post by Gotoh » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:20 am

brasca wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:37 am
You seem to be forgetting the part where Faith was literally twisting Melissa's arm.
You seem to be forgetting that only happened because Mel took first shot and missed, so Faith retaliated.
brasca wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:37 am
the only reason she was sociable afterwards is she wanted to know their secrets.
Not here she wasn't.
brasca wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:37 am
Teddi knew something was amiss, but why should she think she was the cause?
Because he was the only one present during both events. Pandora and Slash-Stab were nowhere to be seen either time, and Teddy should know by now that Pandora would've taken credit had she been involved. She doesn't believe in subtly. That's why she made out with his dad right in front of him, and was loud enough so Teddy would know she was having sex with him.
brasca wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:37 am
Teddi should have pondered the matter more carefully, but her heart was in the right place and she didn't deliberately take advantage of the situation for her own pleasure
Say again? 'cuz Teddy was getting his jollies tribbing Daisy and her friends (last panel here).
brasca wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:37 am
and it's the same with Faith.

No matter how many times you repeat it, it won't make it true.
  • 1. Teddy knows something's affecting those jocks and Daisy's friends. Faith didn't.
  • 2. Teddy still screwed them, regardless of fact 1. Faith wouldn't have (difference again).
brasca wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:37 am
If Teddi was so indifferent to whether who lived or died she would've chosen the worst bully and fed him to Chloe within a week.
Which wouldn't solve the problem, since he'd need said bully to at least survive getting to first base, which as he nearly learned firsthand, is already enough to kill.

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