Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

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lordoffiling
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by lordoffiling » Tue May 29, 2018 2:27 am

Fluffy wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:05 am
The fact that the rest of the class believed Teddy's claims is either due to the succubus pheromones, they all don't dare to question Teddy's claims for fear of appearing transphobic or they're all really that stupid.
As I’ve said before, it really isn’t that anybody is stupid. It’s really more like, “What other explanation is there?”

Teddi’s claim is completely ridiculous, true, but explaining it any other way involves believing in the supernatural and/or aliens from outer space, and Naomi is the only one prepared to make that leap.
"Rather than simply enjoying these comics, we log in to these forums to argue about them. [...] We are some strange people, and I guess we have nothing better to do." - lordoffiling

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Gotoh » Tue May 29, 2018 3:01 am

lordoffiling wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:27 am
Teddi’s claim is completely ridiculous, true, but explaining it any other way involves believing in the supernatural and/or aliens from outer space.
Not necessarily.

Teddy: "Hi, I'm [insert made-up name]. I'm a new transfer student from [insert bogus place]."

Or: "I'm Teddy's cousin/half-sister/childhood friend/etc. from out of town."

Either one of those would be be far more plausible than expecting people to believe he underwent extensive surgery and miraculously recovered in a single weekend.

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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by brasca » Tue May 29, 2018 5:07 am

Cortez wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:46 am
I don't know about stupid. The other students don't know magic exist and they certainly don't believe Teddy is a space alien, so i can see them believing Teddy's claim of knowing a really good surgeon over the belief that Teddy is a shapeshifting space alien.
Most people were indifferent to Teddy prior to the transformation and those who were getting ready to commit a hate crime were quickly won over by pheromones. I estimate there were some who considered it unbelievable like Naomi, but either kept their mouths shut because they wanted a date with Teddi or were in fear of being the target of her many suitors. Perhaps some of the smarter ones actually believe Teddi is playing a joke on them and isn't really the Teddy they knew and just going along with it.
Gotoh wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:01 am
lordoffiling wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:27 am
Teddi’s claim is completely ridiculous, true, but explaining it any other way involves believing in the supernatural and/or aliens from outer space.
Not necessarily.

Teddy: "Hi, I'm [insert made-up name]. I'm a new transfer student from [insert bogus place]."

Or: "I'm Teddy's cousin/half-sister/childhood friend/etc. from out of town."

Either one of those would be be far more plausible than expecting people to believe he underwent extensive surgery and miraculously recovered in a single weekend.
Yes those would all be more plausible, but then you'd get people on this board screaming about how this is every transphobic person's nightmare scenario of a trans girl tricking boys into going out with them. After the uproar over Lacy's 2 moms I'd expect nothing less.

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Vitocap
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Vitocap » Tue May 29, 2018 5:16 am

True. Oh so true. Sad but true.

And Heaven knows we don't need more hate in the forum...
We, the old ghosts of Pizen Bluff, who still roam about this dead forum screaming imprecations at the characters and whatnot.

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Hyper Magi
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Hyper Magi » Tue May 29, 2018 5:26 am

Did the Lacy's mom incident really upset that many people? Or was it just one or two very very loud people? I'll admit I purged it from my memory because I found the whole "controversy" to be nonsense in the first place.
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Cortez
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Cortez » Tue May 29, 2018 5:50 am

lordoffiling wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:27 am
Fluffy wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:05 am
The fact that the rest of the class believed Teddy's claims is either due to the succubus pheromones, they all don't dare to question Teddy's claims for fear of appearing transphobic or they're all really that stupid.
As I’ve said before, it really isn’t that anybody is stupid. It’s really more like, “What other explanation is there?”

Teddi’s claim is completely ridiculous, true, but explaining it any other way involves believing in the supernatural and/or aliens from outer space, and Naomi is the only one prepared to make that leap.


Exactly. It's not like Naomi presented a plausible alternative, she went straight to "Teddy is a space alien".
brasca wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 5:07 am

I estimate there were some who considered it unbelievable like Naomi, but either kept their mouths shut because they wanted a date with Teddi or were in fear of being the target of her many suitors. Perhaps some of the smarter ones actually believe Teddi is playing a joke on them and isn't really the Teddy they knew and just going along with it.
This was before Teddi got her posse. And they all had no problem believing it really is Teddy.
Gotoh wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:01 am


Not necessarily.

Teddy: "Hi, I'm [insert made-up name]. I'm a new transfer student from [insert bogus place]."

Or: "I'm Teddy's cousin/half-sister/childhood friend/etc. from out of town."

Either one of those would be be far more plausible than expecting people to believe he underwent extensive surgery and miraculously recovered in a single weekend.
Except in those scenarios he's claiming to be a different person and that lie is easy to disprove.

And how would Teddy get transferred? Where would he get all the needed documents?

And transferred implies he was in a different school, what happens when they look that up? These are far too needlessly complicated.

And we were talking about explanations about Teddy's change. In which case, having a "really good doctor" is far more believable than "Shapeshifting Space Aliens".
Fluffy wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 1:04 am
Even with the most phenomenal plastic surgeon known to man performing the transition, a person would have to throw their scruples right out the window to believe that a person could recover from extensive/complicated surgeries in the course of two days and not question it.
But paired with "Space Aliens" as an alternative, it suddenly comes off as plausible.

What rational explanation for his change is there? Because again, they don't know magic is real and space aliens is ridiculous.

So they believe Teddy had a great surgeon, because there's no rational alternative. Plus the pheromones help.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Gotoh » Tue May 29, 2018 6:46 am

Cortez wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 5:50 am
Except in those scenarios he's claiming to be a different person and that lie is easy to disprove.

And how would Teddy get transferred? Where would he get all the needed documents?

And transferred implies he was in a different school, what happens when they look that up? These are far too needlessly complicated.
Do you watch anime, or read manga (not being sarcastic)? The new transfer student is one of the most commonly used plot contrivances and not once dose anyone asks questions. Ever.

But if you want to bring up lies that are easy to disprove, what do you think will happen if his teachers ask to see a copy of his medical records of the procedure he allegedly had? How would Teddy get out of that one?

Assuming a false identity is simpler and requires less work. Ask anyone who's ever used a fake ID, or a phony mailing address. Most people aren't gonna do background checks. They'll take what you give them and so long as it seems it's in order, you're good to go. It worked for Rain and it worked for Tia.

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Cortez
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Cortez » Tue May 29, 2018 9:28 am

You don't know what you're talking about, creating a new identity would require more work. It would require far more paper work by comparison.

And again you're not using tropes properly, since it has nothing to do with this situation. Which again, you seem to be missing that we were talking about what would be the most plausible explanation for his change.

You're also ignoring that most of the examples on that Trope page are about characters that really are transfer students, not characters who are genderbent and pretending to be a fake relative. And using a trope as an example does help prove it more plausible.

Another thing to remember is that Teddy's grades wouldn't carry over to his new fake identity, thus defeating the point of going back to school. If he's not going to school as himself, why go back at all?

Plus remember that At that point Teddy had giving up on becoming a guy and thought he was going to be a woman for a good long while.

Also, Teddy being absent from school would cause problems a new identity can't fix. And Chloe wasn't in a position to pose as him at the time, especially not long term.

In any case, we are going off topic since Teddy didn't change his identity to go back to school.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Gotoh » Tue May 29, 2018 12:01 pm

Cortez wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 9:28 am
You don't know what you're talking about, creating a new identity would require more work. It would require far more paper work by comparison.
No, it doesn't. I did it while I was in highschool to attend a school that was outside my district. All it took was a written letter and a friend to vouch for me by saying I lived in his area. The administration office accepted it and I was in.

In fiction, it's even simpler: a drop-in character shows up at the school one day and simply says they're a new student. No one questions it. The teacher introduces them to the class and assigns them a seat.

It worked for Rukia Kuchiki ('Bleach), Ukyo Kuonji ('Ranma½'), Kenji Harima ('School Rumble'), and the entire Venus Unit ('Maken-ki!') among countless others on that same page.
Cortez wrote:Which again, you seem to be missing that we were talking about what would be the most plausible explanation for his change.
...pretending to be his own relative, or a friend, would've been simpler and more plausible than expecting people to believe he underwent transgen surgery and fully recovered in the space of a weekend. Gabby even called bs on it 'cuz he doesn't have any surgical scars.

Had he assumed a cover identity identity instead, all he'd need is to back his own story (when/if he changes back to a boy) by vouching for himself - like Eloise is doing in 'Sandra on the Rocks'.
Last edited by Gotoh on Tue May 29, 2018 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lordoffiling
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by lordoffiling » Tue May 29, 2018 12:02 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:01 am
lordoffiling wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:27 am
Teddi’s claim is completely ridiculous, true, but explaining it any other way involves believing in the supernatural and/or aliens from outer space.
Not necessarily.

Teddy: "Hi, I'm [insert made-up name]. I'm a new transfer student from [insert bogus place]."

Or: "I'm Teddy's cousin/half-sister/childhood friend/etc. from out of town."

Either one of those would be be far more plausible than expecting people to believe he underwent extensive surgery and miraculously recovered in a single weekend.
Nobody was making the argument that Teddi should have come up with a better cover story. He probably could have, but he didn’t need to. He didn’t even need pheromones to sell it.

Let me try one more time to explain this:

Teddi claiming he had sex reassignment surgery over the weekend is almost completely unbelievable. No reasonable person would swallow this lie if there was another explanation.

But there *is* no other explanation, so they’re *forced to believe him*.
"Rather than simply enjoying these comics, we log in to these forums to argue about them. [...] We are some strange people, and I guess we have nothing better to do." - lordoffiling

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Gotoh » Tue May 29, 2018 12:09 pm

lordoffiling wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:02 pm
Teddi claiming he had sex reassignment surgery over the weekend is almost completely unbelievable. No reasonable person would swallow this lie if there was another explanation.

But there *is* no other explanation, so they’re *forced to believe him*.
No, they're not, All it takes is careful examination and a bit of rational thought to realize Teddy's claim is bogus, because Gabby has already spotted the inconsistency and called bs on it.

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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by brasca » Tue May 29, 2018 1:01 pm

Hyper Magi wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 5:26 am
Did the Lacy's mom incident really upset that many people? Or was it just one or two very very loud people? I'll admit I purged it from my memory because I found the whole "controversy" to be nonsense in the first place.
It was enough to compel the editing of the dialogue balloon to give the impression that Lacy's moms didn't want her dating boys because of fear she might get pregnant. And there were some posters who have never returned since that plot.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Fluffy » Tue May 29, 2018 2:22 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:09 pm
lordoffiling wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:02 pm
Teddi claiming he had sex reassignment surgery over the weekend is almost completely unbelievable. No reasonable person would swallow this lie if there was another explanation.

But there *is* no other explanation, so they’re *forced to believe him*.
No, they're not, All it takes is careful examination and a bit of rational thought to realize Teddy's claim is bogus, because Gabby has already spotted the inconsistency and called bs on it.
But - unlike everyone else - Gabby has been trained to look for signs of supernatural involvement when it comes to such things.

Still doesn't change the fact that the student body/faculty just accepts that Teddy had extensive surgeries - and recovered from the ordeal - in two days. If pheromones played a part in the acceptance, I could understand - but just accepting it because there's no other plausible explanation just makes them look like utter morons.
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

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Cortez
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Cortez » Tue May 29, 2018 2:43 pm

lordoffiling wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:02 pm


Nobody was making the argument that Teddi should have come up with a better cover story. He probably could have, but he didn’t need to. He didn’t even need pheromones to sell it.

Let me try one more time to explain this:

Teddi claiming he had sex reassignment surgery over the weekend is almost completely unbelievable. No reasonable person would swallow this lie if there was another explanation.

But there *is* no other explanation, so they’re *forced to believe him*.
Especially since that's ultimately more believable than thinking Teddy is a shapeshifting alien. Not by much, but there's ultimately no other rational explanation and the truth is rather unbelievable.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 28-05-18 Done With All That

Post by Fluffy » Tue May 29, 2018 3:07 pm

No, there were better explanations; namely - the transfer student/DeCarlo relative options that Gotoh suggested. Chloe used a similar tactic when she posed as a substitute French teacher early on in the comic; all Teddy had to do was ask either Chloe or Pandora to help him out with the ruse.

But, instead of having Teddy - a supposedly intelligent character - think up these far more plausible explanations over the course of the weekend, the writer decided to have Teddy go with the stupid route and just have him go to school as is, using the impossible to believe 'I transitioned over the weekend; my surgeon's that good' as the only explanation to excuse the sudden gender swap if anyone called him out on it.
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

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