Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by Fluffy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:17 pm

@EOL - used to; but haven't used DA in ages.
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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by brasca » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:36 am

Valkog wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:29 am
brasca wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:08 am
Too bad she had to make it about herself.
Can you blame the poor girl? Even her own comic isn't about her, anymore.
Not if she couldn't carry her own comic without an interesting group of supporting characters.

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by dmra » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:32 am

Very few characters can carry a story on their own. Where would Batman be without a bunch of supervillains to fight? There's a reason he doesn't just fight normal bank robbers and muggers.

And Chloe wasn't doing so badly in the early days. Time travelling, the Valentine's Day story lines etc but then Teddy changed into a girl and she and a whole bunch of the other characters pretty much disappeared. No Naomi, no angels, no Tiana, no Lucretia.

Edit: and I'll join in the chorus of praise for Fluffy's new avatar as well.
Last edited by dmra on Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hyper Magi
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by Hyper Magi » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:31 am

And the cheery on top was previously likable characters either having their personalities changed, or having their negative traits greatly amplified. Remember when the majority liked Pandora?


Oh and yes, I like your avatar as well Fluffy. Very well drawn!
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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by Fluffy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:22 am

@dmra and Hyper Magi - Thank you, both. :)

Back on topic - I still like Pandora; she's a succubus, after all - her life is to have sex and make everyone else's lives miserable by any means necessary; though I can certainly understand how that can grate on other people's nerves - considering some of the stunts she's pulled. She's also the only voice of reason (scary enough) when it comes to the whole Chloe situation - what with telling Teddy, repeatedly, that mortal men won't survive bedding a virgin succubus and discouraging him from injecting himself with more supernatural blood in order to bed Chloe himself, as it could kill him.

I think the change in plot that irritates me the most is Chloe, herself - she started off as an active/amusing main player in this comic; but, the moment Teddy got a handjob, she became utterly useless; being a guest star in her own comic, sitting around all day, pouting and moody while everyone else took center stage. And now that she's back in the comic - she's getting shat on left, right and center; what with Abby's little stunt almost getting her killed by would be demon hunters, Abby's selfishness and her headmaster 's schemes getting her evicted from the house, being tricked into stripping for a bunch of strangers, learning that the guy she has feelings for never once mentioned her to his co-workers/friends (the fact that she's a succubus aside; Teddy gave her the impression that she was important to him - so, it's really not surprising that Chloe is pissed when she learns his new friends/co-workers have no idea who she is).

I just hope that - when she learns about everything Teddy has been up to while she sulked all day - Chloe is understandably pissed that Teddy (and, by extension, Pandora and Al - because they knew what was going on, and said nothing) would leave her out of a scheme that directly involved her well being. I mean, what woman would be happy with the idea of her boyfriend (for all intents and purposes) using her likeness to seduce men with the express purpose of having them sleep with her - without asking her if she was okay with that, in the first place? Teddy was banking on the idea that Chloe would approve of his choice of lover for her and never once thought that she may not be happy that he would rob her of making the choice for herself.

Though, the likely outcome will probably be similar to the Doompanties arc - where Chloe wails about how awesome her friends are an how terrible she was (even though the situations are completely different; as there is literally nothing stopping her friends from including her in their schemes to save her in this comic).
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by dmra » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:47 am

With the whole Teddy sleeping around and her friends not mentioning anything about it to Chloe I'm reminded of the girl Ace coming back bonus strip.

The idea that people would find what Dio and Kade got up to remotely entertaining or justifiable doesn't feel me with much optimism about the Chloe/Teddi situation.

And I didn't have any problem with Pandora right up until the "you slept with your mama" arc. And even then that was more to do with Teddy completely forgetting about it five minutes after it happened.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by Dragon Paladin » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:30 pm

Fluffy wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:22 am
@dmra and Hyper Magi - Thank you, both. :)

Back on topic - I still like Pandora; she's a succubus, after all - her life is to have sex and make everyone else's lives miserable by any means necessary; though I can certainly understand how that can grate on other people's nerves - considering some of the stunts she's pulled. She's also the only voice of reason (scary enough) when it comes to the whole Chloe situation - what with telling Teddy, repeatedly, that mortal men won't survive bedding a virgin succubus and discouraging him from injecting himself with more supernatural blood in order to bed Chloe himself, as it could kill him.

I think the change in plot that irritates me the most is Chloe, herself - she started off as an active/amusing main player in this comic; but, the moment Teddy got a handjob, she became utterly useless; being a guest star in her own comic, sitting around all day, pouting and moody while everyone else took center stage. And now that she's back in the comic - she's getting shat on left, right and center; what with Abby's little stunt almost getting her killed by would be demon hunters, Abby's selfishness and her headmaster 's schemes getting her evicted from the house, being tricked into stripping for a bunch of strangers, learning that the guy she has feelings for never once mentioned her to his co-workers/friends (the fact that she's a succubus aside; Teddy gave her the impression that she was important to him - so, it's really not surprising that Chloe is pissed when she learns his new friends/co-workers have no idea who she is).

I just hope that - when she learns about everything Teddy has been up to while she sulked all day - Chloe is understandably pissed that Teddy (and, by extension, Pandora and Al - because they knew what was going on, and said nothing) would leave her out of a scheme that directly involved her well being. I mean, what woman would be happy with the idea of her boyfriend (for all intents and purposes) using her likeness to seduce men with the express purpose of having them sleep with her - without asking her if she was okay with that, in the first place? Teddy was banking on the idea that Chloe would approve of his choice of lover for her and never once thought that she may not be happy that he would rob her of making the choice for herself.

Though, the likely outcome will probably be similar to the Doompanties arc - where Chloe wails about how awesome her friends are an how terrible she was (even though the situations are completely different; as there is literally nothing stopping her friends from including her in their schemes to save her in this comic).
It's funny. I actually like Pandora too, though i can see why other people hate her. But whenever i read people would complain about her antics (i read the forums for quite a while before i joined) I would just think to myself: "Oh yeah, she loves screwing with people and tormenting them. It's almost like she's a demon or something."

P.s. i know everyone's said it, but you did an awesome job on your avatar, Fluffy.
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by Gotoh » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:33 pm

brasca wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:36 am
Valkog wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:29 am
Can you blame the poor girl? Even her own comic isn't about her, anymore.
Not if she couldn't carry her own comic without an interesting group of supporting characters.
This about sums it up, for me. I've always found Chloe to be a bland character, even when she was in EC. The only time I ever found her sorta interesting was during the Doompanties arc and, even then, she seemed more like a substitute for Mel (EC's original blonde antagonist).

Tia had more of a presence than Chloe ever did, despite her late introduction to the series and it wasn't long before I started seeing signs that there was more to her than what she initially let on.

I chose to follow DC to see whether it would flesh out Chloe, but aside from the permanent age up, not much has changed about her. She's gone from being just sort of "there" (in EC), to barely being present in her own comic. If anyone were to ask me what her defining character trait is, I'd say she's a perpetual screw up, despite her good intentions. Except the *C-verse already has a character like that and even she eventually grew out of it, by at least finding a way to use it to her advantage.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by dmra » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:57 pm

Arguably Laura while not exactly evil didn't really have good intentions. She was largely out to get things she wanted just not very good at getting them. Chloe by contrast seems to be a naturally nice person.

The "problem" with Chloe's character was that she was originally defined by what she wasn't. She was a succubus who didn't like the idea of standing out and who wanted to look less sexy. Like Nina she was an essentially innocent character but without Nina's childishness.

Then she went to Hell and came back a little bit hardened but still not fundamentally changed. So because Nina reminded her of Abby she decided to defy her orders and help Teddy who she then broke every rule of succubusdom by falling in love with. Even now she day dreams about living with Teddy in Hell - hardly something a traditional succubus would do,

So yes the point about Chloe is that she is a screw-up despite her good intentions but the fact that a succubus has good intentions is what defines her character. She's a rebel against her background only her background is one of being a sex demon whose nature and job is to seduce humans into ruin and take their souls to Hell. Chloe being a nice, caring hopeless romantic is really the ultimate anti-succubus.


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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by dmra » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:19 pm

Not a comic I'm familiar with. Shame it looks interesting but life is already too short for current interests to really start another.

I think part of the problem with Chloe is that nice people - like happy ones - are very hard to write about interestingly. So they have to be given massive amounts of drama or other characters to react against to seem interesting.

The nearest example to Chloe and (pre gender change) Teddy I can thnk of was Belldandy and Keichi. Both essentially nice people who cared for each other which were very well written but would never have got to 40 odd volumes without a host of very different supporting characters and a series of dramas to offset the sugary niceness of their relationship.

Edit Mind you I have to admit to my own bias on Chloe. I'm of an age to have played Planescape Torment when it first came out. Fall-from-Grace was always my favourite companion for the Nameless One.

http://torment.wikia.com/wiki/Fall-from-Grace

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Error of Logic
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by Error of Logic » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:26 pm

I never got to play, but I do know of Fall-from-Grace. A very nice concept. ^_^

As for the succubus nun, her character never reappears after this one panel. :-/

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by Gotoh » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:59 pm

dmra wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:57 pm
Arguably Laura while not exactly evil didn't really have good intentions. She was largely out to get things she wanted just not very good at getting them.
I was referring to the perpetual screw up aspect of Laura's character (and Chloe's). The only difference being, it's essentially part of Laura's nature as an ifrit, so it genuinely can't be helped in her case. Yet, she still found a way to make it work for her and her friends, by weaponizing it against Tia.

Laura and Cess also began as a pair of minor antagonists to Layla, but eventually became friends with Nina (and the rest of Nina's friends) as thanks for her kindness.
dmra wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:57 pm
So yes the point about Chloe is that she is a screw-up despite her good intentions but the fact that a succubus has good intentions is what defines her character.

Chloe being a nice, caring hopeless romantic is really the ultimate anti-succubus.
Chloe's hardly alone in that regard, since her mother was also shown to be well-intentioned. She has no problem condeming souls because she accepts her nature and because we were told by Dave01 that the cryptids' sense of morality isn't the same as ours.

For clarity: I'm not disregarding your point, 'cuz it's a fair observation. But we've seen other cryptids successfully suppress their natures. I'm still waiting to see if Chloe will have that "Aha!" moment like Laura did, or a life changing one like Brooke that will serve as her 'turn around'.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by Gotoh » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:08 pm

dmra wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:19 pm
I think part of the problem with Chloe is that nice people - like happy ones - are very hard to write about interestingly.
Do you mean nice as in happy-go-lucky, or just nice in general? :-\

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 5-04-18 Never Mentioned Chloe

Post by dmra » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:29 pm

I mean nice in general.

It's a bit like Batman being a more interesting character than Superman. Batman is darker and more complex generally speaking therefore tends to have more facets to his character which makes him more interesting. Superman is much more "white bread" therefore less interesting intrinsically.

It's a bit like the old Tolstoy quote that "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." So while happy families can be interesting and have loads of stories to tell it's likely to be more fascinating watching an unhappy one because they are simply more varied and unusual.

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