Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

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Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Gotoh » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:51 pm

Rosa wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:15 pm
I'm reminded of this every time I see Americans hollering war on porn, censorship of movies and games, persecution of authors of politically incorrect stories and grim condemnation of Canadian webcomics.
You're aware that censorship exists on all sides of the pond, yes? :-\

Edit: Especially the part of your post about gaming censorship. While the ESRB has its guidelines, the US doesn't even make the Top 10 (or 20, for that matter).

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by LegendaryKroc » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:31 am

...Good grief. And here I worried about things I thought of saying being stupid or incendiary enough to start extended forum spats. Turns out I'm pretty tame, if repetitive; certainly I can't take credit for this 9-page spread.

On the topic of this strip's relevant comic, let me add the following: for the moment I'm going to give the writer the benefit of the doubt and assume all this recent nonsense, including Teddy's gender-bender and sudden sluttiness, Pandora's infuriating "prank" and especially Abby wanting big boobies to the extent of literally and inexorably binding herself to the Great Fire Below, were implemented as well-intentioned yet ultimately ill-advised first steps to ongoing storylines that, much like Lacey seemingly being indoctrinated into lesbianhood except not really, probably sounded a lot better on paper and to someone with the proper context. Even if that's the case, this is a flunking grade execution. Apparently Zack Snyder had some big ideas about slowly developing the DCEU heroes from unrecognisable jerks into shapes more in line with their classic comic depictions, but he and Warner Bros. completely flubbed the first three films in the enterprise to such an insane degree that everyone treats them as pretenders to Disney-Marvel's throne, and there are concerns that not even MVP Gal Gadot herself can save it. Good ideas for storylines are all very fine, but if you lose the audience mid-swing they're not worth spit.

Of course that's a pretty big assumption - for all I know, this could just be one big improv act - but hey, without direct communication from the writer what else is there to say?

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Vitocap
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Vitocap » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:33 am

Fairy Glade's Fairy wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:45 pm
dmra wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:23 pm
@Fluffy
Thanks I must have missed the debate on the MA3 forum. Although thinking about it I doubt I have missed very much.
That would be the infamous "harder dick" debate...
it's one of the old issues in Ma3 that Didi has trouble coming during sex, and the reason was found eventually that it's bcs she needs an emotional connection with her partner to orgasm... but Fluffy argued against that & said that the problem was that Didi just needed someone to fuck her hard enough, and that would do the trick... she even recommended Matt for the job.... and when we replied that Didi had been fucked hard before and that did nothing to her, Fluffy argued that she just needed a harder dick...
I stopped discussing when I realized Fluffy's beef wasn't with us the other posters... she wasn't against us, no; she was fighting against Giz, against the canon, against all that Giz had set in her comic... so no reason for me to keep on discussing... we just had to let Giz deal with her, ignore her or whatever...

... you know what? I guess you are right, you didn't miss much......
Heh.

It's happening all over again, here and now.

The difference being that, instead of waging war on Giz, the haters are now waging war on Dave. They only write to profess their hate for this comic.

They claim they offer pithy criticism, and tell Dave he should be thankful for their valuable feedback... then, at the same time, they flood the forum with messages saying that they want to read a completely different comic where characters with different personalities and different drives do different things in a different world. If possible, by a different author. #-o (One guy plainly said he doubted Dave could write anything worthwile or interesting. You know who you are.)

They hate Pandora, they hate Chloe, they hate Abby, they hate Teddi. They hate every development: when Teddi took up stripping, when Chloe ruined Valentine's Day for lots of couples, when Abby turned succubus, when Pandora married Teddi's dad, when Teddi got humped by his old enemies the jock bullies (and loved every moment of it). Every new twist of the story sends them into spasms. And then they affect surprise when fans of the comic call them trolls. 8-| There really isn't much that we, who love the story to bits, who love every character and every plotline, can do for them...
We, the old ghosts of Pizen Bluff, who still roam about this dead forum screaming imprecations at the characters and whatnot.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by dmra » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:25 am

Vitocap wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:33 am

(One guy plainly said he doubted Dave could write anything worthwile or interesting. You know who you are.)
I think you're referring to me. Or at least this piece I wrote.

"This is the writing team that gave us the whole "you had sex with your mother" Pandora "pranking" Teddi arc. After which Teddi seems to have completely forgotten the whole saga and has acted like nothing happened.

Somehow I don't rate the chances of them exploring Abby's situation in an interesting and worthwhile way very highly."

Which doesn't quite say what you seem to think it does. I said that I didn't think the writing team had much chance of dealing with Abby's situation in an interesting and worthwhile way. I never said that they couldn't "write anything worthwhile or interesting".

Given that I've been reading all the Pixietrix comics since the day they started and have bought all the books and quite a lot of associated merchandise I clearly think that they do write stuff that is interesting and worth reading. But I know them well enough to know that the writers aren't perfect, they have strengths and weaknesses and are better at some things than others.

And there's nothing wrong with that. No artist is perfect at everything. In the same way I wouldn't watch a Marvel's Universe film expecting to see an intimate study of somebody's emotional life as they struggle to find their way in life. I wouldn't go to see an Ingmar Bergman film expecting to see lots of explosions and flashy special effects.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Fairy Glade's Fairy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:07 pm

Vitocap wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:33 am
Every new twist of the story sends them into spasms. And then they affect surprise when fans of the comic call them trolls. 8-| There really isn't much that we, who love the story to bits, who love every character and every plotline, can do for them...
I feel like the best I can do is persist in explaining to them the basics of child sexuality... all that stuff that is, or should be, in this day and age, widely known; repeat it until they learn well, coz, these days, if you don't understand this, wow, it's really bad and embarrassing for you...

children are curious about their bodies and those of others, and child sexual behavior starts very early... around the age of 4-5... from ages 5 to 7, imitations of adult behaviors and explorative sex play are very common... at this stage, it's just games... then by the age of 8 or 9, a big change occurs: children become aware of sexual arousal and sexual pleasure... they recognize it as a specific type of erotic sensation, and will seek these pleasurable experiences through self-touches, imagination, looking at erotic pics or experimenting with other children... and then, a bit later, at 11-12, children either reach puberty or are at the brink of puberty, and by that time they already have a very good understanding of pretty much all things that are related directly or indirectly to adult sex behavior...

Abby is 11 or 12, and we know her sexuality is well developed... we have been shown it time and again... covering the walls in her room with erotic posters of half-naked young men who show off their muscles... reacting with arousal to hunky angel boys... turned on by Devon, watching his awful movies just to perv on his awesome bod... understanding adult fetishes, like sweat on manual workers, or messy drinking where fluids trickle over sexy bulging pecs... from all this, we can say that she is a perfectly normal child with a sexual history typical for a girl her age... that is, in recapitulation:

Abby at ages 5-7 already engaged in games of explorative sex play with her little friends (playing doctor and such); by the age of 8-9 she became aware of sexual pleasure and discovered arousal, both physical and psychological, and learned to stimulate her erogenous zones through self-touches and mutual experimenting with children close in age (not with Teddy, however, bcs they have too much of an age gap, and the story arc of Teddy in Hell established that Teddy found the idea disagreeable); and finally, now, at the brink of puberty, Abby is ready and eagerly waiting for her first serious relationships & sexual experiences, and it just happens she has received the body of a succubus and for her it's like the best thing evar, a dream come true... it's just normal, any girl of 11-12 would feel the same...

I'd say, in conclusion, that Dave have masterfully managed the story so far, depicting the human main characters (Abby, Teddy/Teddi) with great psychological realism & presenting their explorations of various body changes with lucidness and coherence... and we can happily expect more of the same in the future. Good for us, eh?



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Hyper Magi
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Hyper Magi » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:45 pm

There is no "war" being held Vitocap. While some of us may have criticisms of the direction the story has been headed recently, by no means do we think ill of Dave(or any other writer) because of it. As stated, no one is perfect. Not every arc is going to go over well with everyone. People loved Magick Chicks, even if the ending felt a bit flat. People loved Eerie Cuties, despite one or two incidents that got the fandom heated up. If we're critical of a storyline or event, it's because we care. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here.

As stated before, it's fine to be supportive of the writers. Acting like a sycophant however doesn't help anyone(Just ask Sandi), acting as if anything outside of praise is "waging war" is rather illogical. You literally wanted someone moderated because they didn't think Abby's current character development could be pulled off well. Do you not understand the implications of that?
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by rogermart » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:47 pm

Rosa wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:15 pm
@Fairy coincidence that you mention Puritans, I have been thinking for a while now that this squabble in the forum is actually American readers on one side vs. Canadian readers + all readers from the rest of the world. Puritan culture has always permeated American culture; it has given them Comstock(ery), Hoover, Limbaugh, anti-sex feminists, every high-profile Republican politician today. And there's this one thing I know about the old New England Puritans, it's that they believed that the idea of sin is the same as sin. Suppose one of those Puritans saw a comely lass on the street and got lustful thoughts in his head; well, since sex out of marriage was a mortal sin and he'd just had sexy thoughts, the poor sod would return home and flagellate himself to atone for his sin. It didn't matter that he hadn't done shit wrong; he had the idea of sinning, and that was the same as sin for Puritans. They couldn't tell fantasy from reality. Sounds familiar? I think it does. I'm reminded of this every time I see Americans hollering war on porn, censorship of movies and games, persecution of authors of politically incorrect stories and grim condemnation of Canadian webcomics.
Like Robin Williams said in The Crazy Ones "In Europe sex is a good thing, you know, fraternité, egalité, sexualité, but this is America, we like our sex shameful the way God intended it to be, that's why Mormons make love standing up so the Big Guy thinks they're dancing".
That's what i do... i drink and i know things...

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by dmra » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:10 pm

Funny thing about the Puritans. They were a lot more complicated than later people make them out to be. Not an American Puritan, but firmly in the same tradition, in his poem "Paradise Lost" Milton has the angel Raphael discussing with Adam whether or not angels have sex. The answer is yes. Not exactly in the earthly way as shown in this comic but even so.they certainly do get it on and without any particular concerns about sinfulness.

“Easier than air with air, if spirits embrace, / Total they mix, union of pure with pure / Desiring”.

This article might also be informative. https://www.bostonmagazine.com/arts-ent ... -sex-myth/

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Rosa » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:03 pm

Fairy Glade's Fairy wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:07 pm
Abby at ages 5-7 already engaged in games of explorative sex play with her little friends (playing doctor and such); by the age of 8-9 she became aware of sexual pleasure and discovered arousal, both physical and psychological, and learned to stimulate her erogenous zones through self-touches and mutual experimenting with children close in age (not with Teddy, however, bcs they have too much of an age gap, and the story arc of Teddy in Hell established that Teddy found the idea disagreeable); and finally, now, at the brink of puberty, Abby is ready and eagerly waiting for her first serious relationships & sexual experiences...
Hey waitaminute... didn't we see Abby masturbate once?
I don't remember the time or context, but I vaguely remember these images: Abby who starts touching herself, and in the end reaches an orgasm. Didn't that happen like that? Or I'm recalling some other character's scene?
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Fairy Glade's Fairy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:07 pm

ah that was when she touched her horns... the horns are a super erogenous zone for succubi, much like the boobs or vagina...
Abby started petting her horns & collapsed in a cloud of hearts because of the strong feelings of sexual pleasure...
I'm nor sure if she "reached orgasm" tho... y'see, touching yourself in the right places (or having someone else do it) brings erotic pleasure even if you don't climax... that's why all children love doing it even tho it's not physically possible to get an orgasm before puberty...
but Abby was succubized at that time... so go figure what happened... whether she collapsed because of great erotic sensations or coz she did reach the big O, how a child succubus feels these things, is anyone's guess...

(I think it's prolly not orgasm, bcs Abby reacted in a natural & relaxed way, cloud of hearts and all, like those sensations were something she was used too... if it had been her first climax ever, she would have been totes surprised...)



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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Fairy Glade's Fairy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:41 pm

Mandy wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:28 pm
There's just an awkwardness involved in Abby having this adult body. If she were a normal kid dating another kid, that would be fine... But how is it supposed to work with her in an adult body? If she's with a kid her age, she's going to look like a pedophile to the adults around her. If she's with an adult, it's going to feel like she's being taken advantage of and rushed into things by someone more experienced...
Well, I think it's more important how it feels to her than how it feels to the onlookers, but I get your point... in fact, I suspect it may even be a part of Ilsa's plan... I've been wondering lately, what's Ilsa's angle in all of this? where's her profit? and even tho I'm not certain of the answer yet, I'd bet it'll turn out to be some kind of "ironic price" related to the two facts that 1) at her old school nobody will recognize Abby now & she will be all sad, and 2) the things about succubus sex that make it different from human sex, like the need to feed on souls, or the deathlust the first few times.. look at it this way: if Abby goes seduce Roy now, oopsie, you can scratch one Roy coz he'll be dead meat...



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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Cortez » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:17 am

Gotoh wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:51 pm
Rosa wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:15 pm
I'm reminded of this every time I see Americans hollering war on porn, censorship of movies and games, persecution of authors of politically incorrect stories and grim condemnation of Canadian webcomics.
You're aware that censorship exists on all sides of the pond, yes? :-\

Edit: Especially the part of your post about gaming censorship. While the ESRB has its guidelines, the US doesn't even make the Top 10 (or 20, for that matter).
Yeah, i believe China, Australia and Russia has the US beat there.

I think Germany too, but i've only heard about them either banning or censoring any mentions of Nazis. I don't remember if they've banned stuff because of violent or sexual nature.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 15-03-18 Confide in Me

Post by Gotoh » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:23 am

@Cortez: Israel, Brazil, Venezuela, and N. and South Korea too, among others. So I find it odd that the US always gets singled out as if we're the main offender in terms of censorship.

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