Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Fluffy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:59 pm

So, you think the only reason Faith did what she did to Layla (tapping into Layla's psyche, thus making her that more dangerous for the sake of combat practice) was because Tiffany showed up? Because that's what it sounds like to me.

And, in regards to how Cerise handled Tandy (or any of her opponents, for that matter) - why give your opponent a chance to lay their hands on you when you can just dispose of them before they can? If you know someone is there to hurt you; a smart person is going to eliminate the threat the first chance they get - which is what Cerise did with Tandy when she dared to challenge her. And it worked - Tandy, with all her skill, landed a single kick to Cerise - and was taken out of the fight seconds later.
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Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Gotoh » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:30 am

Fluffy wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:59 pm
So, you think the only reason Faith did what she did to Layla was because Tiffany showed up? Because that's what it sounds like to me.
Yes, the evidence is right there in both links. In the first one, Faith clearly says she should've staked Layla. Then when Tiff showed up, Faith sked Tiffany to hold the stake for her. Tiff asked: "Y-you want ME to stake her??"

And Faith's reply was: "Maybe later, hang on a sec." right before probing Layla's psyche.

So we have to ask ourselves, what would she have done if Tiff hadn't shown up? Layla was already out of it and completely at Faith's mercy, that much is indisputable. And based on Faith's thoughts in the first link, she was leaning towards staking her.

If you want further proof, look at what she said during the fight: "No wonder you Combat Cadets are always so upbeat! The thrill of combat is exhilarating!"
Fluffy wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:59 pm
And, in regards to how Cerise handled Tandy - why give your opponent a chance to lay their hands on you when you can just dispose of them before they can?

And it worked - Tandy, with all her skill, landed a single kick to Cerise - and was taken out of the fight seconds later.
And I'm not disagreeing with that, which is why I used the analogy that I did. It was a smart move, but also an unspoken admission that she wasn't confident about facing Tandy (or any of the student council) directly.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Fluffy » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:19 am

Exactly - Faith was already debating on using the opportunity to fight Layla before Tiffany showed up. Even if Tiffany came on the scene, the chances that Faith would have gone through with her stupid idea anyway would have been just as likely.

In Cerise's case - she did face Tandy directly; taking her down with one well placed stab after Tandy crept up and attacked from behind. And later, Cerise used a psychic blast to render her would be opponents defenseless - forcing Faith to focus her energy on protecting the other students.

A fight doesn't need to be drawn out with physical blows to still be considered a fight.

In any case, this is getting way off topic. Long and short of my point was that - as much as Tandy and Gabrielle claim to be awesome fighters/demon slayers; they've shown to be incredibly crappy fighters when facing an actual threat; largely needing to be saved by others due to their overconfidence.
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Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Gotoh » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:05 am

Fluffy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:19 am
Exactly - Faith was already debating on using the opportunity to fight Layla before Tiffany showed up.
No she wasn't. Faith didn't think of fighting her, 'til Tiff showed up, because Tiff is part of the Combat Corp. That's what gave her the idea.
Fluffy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:19 am
Long and short of my point was that - as much as Tandy and Gabrielle claim to be awesome fighters/demon slayers; they've shown to be incredibly crappy fighters when facing an actual threat.
Being shot by Jay wouldn't suddenly mean Jet Li sucks at fighting, nor would it diminish any of his accomplishments as a martial artist, stunt coordinator, or action film star. All it'd mean is, Leno had an unfair advantage.

The same applies to Tandy and Gabby. They have their status for a reason.

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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by brasca » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:33 am

Gotoh wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:06 am
brasca wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:22 am
Seeing as how her instructor Sgt. Slash n Stab runs everything like a military school I'm fairly certain Chloe has learned a few things about hand to hand combat. More than likely it's self defense against greater threats like angels.
Slash Stab dresses like a military instructor, yet her students dress in Catholic schoolgirl fetish wear. And nothing we've seen so far suggests combat training is part of their curriculum.
She also addresses them as cadets and those uniforms look more like a Girl Scout fetish than Catholic school girl, but just because we haven't seen the students involved in combat training doesn't mean it's not a part of the curriculum.
Gotoh wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:06 am
brasca wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:22 am
I think the students of Artemis may just be legends in their own minds and incapable of handling the high class cryptids like succubi and vampires.
The comic's editor has repeatedly said otherwise, even stating that Faith can handle a mid-level monster. And during MC's finale we saw her shrug off the esper collective single-handedly and shrug off an explosion from Mel and Cerise's power combined. Faith was back on her feet like nothing happened.

Callista is also one of the top students at the academy and was noted by Tiffany to be a cause for concern. So I wouldn't take her lightly either.
And yet the cryptids don't seem to be all that afraid to go out at night. Perhaps they're kept safe with cloaking spells and other peaceful means to avoid hostilities. While Faith could've killed Layla I doubt she'd have long to savor the victory. Either the Delacroixs would personally seek revenge, hire an assassin, or wait for Queen Lumina to manifest in Nina.
Gotoh wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:06 am
brasca wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:22 am
They didn't want to bring them in because they feared Teddi's pheromones could take control over them and seeing as how Chloe has the same powers if not greater since she knows how to use them the peaceful end to this conflict could be enthrallment.
Except neither of them knows the extent of Faith's power. No one does, that was stated twice in the comic. Sandi is the one closest to her, and even she hasn't been able to catalog all of Faith's abilities. So how can Tandy and Gabrielle be expected to know any better than Sandi does?

About the only thng stopping them from involving Faith is the fact neither of them seems to like her.
No it's because they don't want to involve espers who could be turned against them with pheromones. http://www.dangerouslychloe.com/strips-dc/a-lame-excuse

It doesn't matter what Faith's power level is. They know it's too dangerous to involve her.
Gotoh wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:06 am
brasca wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:22 am
Good Mel is the only one who might be immune since she's heterosexual and probably more knowledgeable
The target's sexual orientation is moot according to Gabrielle, when she and Tandy noted that Daisy and her friends might've been straight until they were bombarded by Teddy's pheromones. Gabrielle also only showed interest in guys until that moment.
No, but it couldn't hurt to bring somebody on this mission who wouldn't jump Teddi's bones even without pheromones.

You know it's the strangest thing reading over these arguments because I find myself agreeing with Fluffy. I never thought that would happen. :))

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Gotoh » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:05 am

brasca wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:33 am
just because we haven't seen the students involved in combat training doesn't mean it's not a part of the curriculum.
Even though there hasn't been anything that supports it?
brasca wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:33 am
And yet the cryptids don't seem to be all that afraid to go out at night.
From what we've been shown, AA is a secretive school. The only ones at CH that are aware of its existence are the CH principal, who says she has a colleague who works there and the Hellrunes only because they were transferred there. They had never heard of it before then and had no idea what sort of school it was until after they got there.

So why would cryptids fear being out in public if they aren't aware that there's a school for monster hunters?
brasca wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:33 am
while Faith could've killed Layla I doubt she'd have long to savor the victory. Either the Delacroixs would personally seek revenge
How would they even know who was responsible? Tiff is the only one witness present at the time. And if Faith hadn't hesitated to stake Layla, Tiff would be none the wiser either, unless Faith decided to tell her about it.
brasca wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:22 am
It doesn't matter what Faith's power level is. They know it's too dangerous to involve her.
How can you (or they) claim to know what's a danger to her without first knowing the extent of her ability? Her own secretary couldn't answer that when she was asked about it.

They may be erring on the side of caution, but they have no way of knowing what will, or won't affect her, or to what extent. Think about it:
  • Faith realized someone was missing during the camping incident, when everyone else's memory of Cerise was wiped clean (excluding Tiff, since the spell hadn't been cast on her).
  • The esper collective incapacitated the rest of the student council, whereas Faith overpowered them on her own.
  • And she recovered immediately from the explosion, when Tiff and the others were knocked unconscious by it.
So based on her track record and everything she's withstood, so far, can you really say with any certainty that Chloe's chances are any better?

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TwoWayStar
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by TwoWayStar » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:17 pm

while you guys fight about all of that, im just happy we're on an interesting story, no sex in sight, and here comes some action! :D also Momma Chloe is a mama BEAR! >:D Protect your babby succubus!!!

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Fluffy » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:32 pm

Abby annoys the ever living crap out of me; but, I completely agree with you. :)
brasca wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:33 am
You know it's the strangest thing reading over these arguments because I find myself agreeing with Fluffy. I never thought that would happen. :))
LOL! :))

It's nice to see that I'm not alone on this debate, though. Thanks for that. :)
Gotoh wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:05 am
brasca wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:33 am
just because we haven't seen the students involved in combat training doesn't mean it's not a part of the curriculum.
Even though there hasn't been anything that supports it?
We just saw Chloe - a weakened succubus, mind you - lunge forward and tear out the mid section of Gabrielle's uniform. I somehow doubt that was merely an instinctual act on Chloe's part based on her need to protect Abby.
gotoh wrote:From what we've been shown, AA is a secretive school. The only ones at CH that are aware of its existence are the CH principal, who says she has a colleague who works there and the Hellrunes only because they were transferred there. They had never heard of it before then and had no idea what sort of school it was until after they got there.
The cryptid school is secretive, too (the only ones knowing about it being Tiffany Winters); but, we're not talking about the schools, we're talking about the social lives of the students - who, when not attending classes, are largely wandering around in broad daylight, among regular human beings, on a daily basis. Going to the movies, shopping, out on dates, etc.
gotoh wrote:So why would cryptids fear being out in public if they aren't aware that there's a school for monster hunters?
They may be unaware that a school for demon slayers exists; but the cryptids are not so naive to think there isn't any threat out there against them(pretty sure there was a part in Vampire Cheerleaders where Layla's mother says the Winters family is of no real threat to her family.)
gotoh wrote:
How would they even know who was responsible? Tiff is the only one witness present at the time. And if Faith hadn't hesitated to stake Layla, Tiff would be none the wiser either, unless Faith decided to tell her about it.
Because Faith wouldn't have bragged about taking down a real vampire? Uh huh - sure.

And, again - via Vampire Cheerleaders, it's apparent that the Delacroix family is aware that Tiffany Winters has been around their daughter, and Tiffany is part of a family of vampire hunters. If anything happened to Layla, she'd be the first person they'd target.
brasca wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:22 am
It doesn't matter what Faith's power level is. They know it's too dangerous to involve her.
gotoh wrote:How can you (or they) claim to know what's a danger to her without first knowing the extent of her ability? Her own secretary couldn't answer that when she was asked about it.
Faith is bisexual, and can't resist a pretty face ; and Chloe is damned pretty. Faith has already proven that her overconfidence in her abilities can get her into a world of trouble. Tandy and Gabrielle choosing not to get Faith (or any magical person) involved in this mess is maybe one of the smartest decisions they've made.

Because, really - are you going to give a succubus with the power to enthrall people the chance to control someone like Faith? You'd have to be especially dumb to take that kind of unnecessary risk.
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by LegendaryKroc » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:31 pm

Man, I'm feeling an incredible sense of déjà vu right now. When we argue on these forums we really go all out.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Fluffy » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:36 pm

I wouldn't call them arguments - more like heated debates.
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Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Gotoh » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:46 pm

Fluffy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:32 pm
We just saw Chloe - a weakened succubus, mind you - lunge forward and tear out the mid section of Gabrielle's uniform. I somehow doubt that was merely an instinctual act on Chloe's part based on her need to protect Abby.
You don't need combat training to throw a punch, anyone can do that if they become angry enough. Case in point: Layla went off on Ace for making Nina cry. And we know for a fact that Layla's never had a lick of combat training, but she's also scuffled twice with Brooke.
Flufy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:32 pm
They may be unaware that a school for demon slayers exists; but the cryptids are not so naive to think there isn't any threat out there against them
Sure, but the cryptids don't know who the slayers are, or that there's a girls academy that trains them.

The part about Maria knowing about Tiff only applies to VC's cannon. In the *C-verse itself, the cheer vamps, the PMS crew, and PETM don't exist.
Fluffy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:32 pm
Because Faith wouldn't have bragged about taking down a real vampire?
Not unless she was reporting it to the faculty at AA, or telling her friends around campus. Neither of which includes Layla's family, unless you're suggesting she'd talk about that sort of thing in public and we know that isn't gonna happen.
Fluffy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:32 pm
Tiffany is part of a family of vampire hunters. If anything happened to Layla, she'd be the first person they'd target.
Again, they're only aware of that in VC/PMS, not in EC/MC. But even if that were the case, Tiffany isn't the only slayer that exist, so if they went after her or her family, it'd be a knee-jerk reaction based on circumstantial evidence. Maria's more responsible than that.

Fluffy wrote: Faith is bisexual, and can't resist a pretty face ; and Chloe is damned pretty.
I'd say she leans more towards lesbian, since Ash is the only guy she says she's ever had any interest in (related trope). The same way Tiff considers herself straight, but has an attraction to only one other girl.

On that note: beauty and sex appeal are subjective. Plenty of people have seen Chloe without being attracted to her. Likewise, Faith's interest in her own gender doesn't mean she's just gonna hit on any and every girl she sees.
Fluffy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:32 pm
Because, really - are you going to give a succubus with the power to enthrall people the chance to control someone like Faith?
Which is assuming it's even possible, given AA has classes that teach how to resist various forms of mental domination. And it assumes she'd be attacted to Chloe.

For example: Brooke (who's bi-curious) was present when Chloe pheromone bombed the entire school and she wasn't affected by it. Neither was Layla, despite being covered in it.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Fluffy » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:30 pm

You seriously don't want to accept the fact that Faith - a bisexual/lesbian who inadvertently turned the majority of the student body gay for her - could be swayed by a succubus; a sexual demon who uses pheromones (i.e. - scent glands; not mental manipulation)- to enthrall her prey?

She's powerful, no question - but she's still human and has been shown to be careless at times; largely due to her own overly inflated ego. Some of us have no evidence to prove Faith wouldn't be able to resist a succubus' charms, but you have just as much evidence to prove that she could (i.e. - you don't).

Tandy and Gabrielle refusing to have any magically imbued student involved in this is the smartest thing they could do; because it would be insane to want to risk a succubus having that kind of power at her disposal.
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Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Gotoh » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:00 pm

Fluffy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:30 pm
You seriously don't want to accept the fact that Faith could easily be swayed, do you?
I'm saying we don't know. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yet, you're taking Tandy and Gabrielle's word on it as it were a proven fact, even though neither of them knows what effect (if any) Chloe's pheromones would have on Faith either.

On the other hand, we have proof of at least two people (Layla and Brooke) that weren't effected by Chloe's pheromones, despite being covered in it and neither of them has had any sort of training to resist that sort of thing. So if they were unaffected, is it really that hard to believe that a girl who's had specialized training might also be unaffected? :-\
Fluffy wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:30 pm
Tandy and Gabrielle refusing to have any magically imbued student involved in this is the smartest thing to do; because you really don't want to risk a succubus having that kind of power at her disposal.
I've already agreed that they're erring on the side of caution. All I'm saying is, they don't have all the facts yet. So it seems odd that they're confronting Abby and Chloe, rather than continuing their recon instead.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by Zafnak » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:45 pm

Searcher wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:04 am
'Mother Forking' ... =)) Maybe I find that funnier then I should but what a great way to curse.
Living in the same house as a couple of succubi has given Abby a bit of a broader vocabulary than she might have otherwise had.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 21-12-17 Stay Away From Her

Post by FuzzyFace » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:51 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:00 pm
I've already agreed that they're erring on the side of caution. All I'm saying is, they don't have all the facts yet. So it seems odd that they're confronting Abby and Chloe, rather than continuing their recon instead.
Presumably they've decided that Abby, clearly an underage demon, isn't much of a threat. They weren't expecting one with any real training.

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