Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Discuss EC/MC/DC here!

Moderators: Dave Zero1, Don Alexander, Giz, midgetshrimp, Cassandra

Post Reply
User avatar
Error of Logic
Posts: 5066
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Error of Logic » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:00 pm

But he never did.
And she never mentioned it.
My comic, Res Mira, starts here.

The crazy will bust loose. Either in the stories or on the forum. Or both at the same time.

Mad theory: Eulice is actually a retired succubus. This explains why she says DiDi Chastel looks like she did in her younger years. She maintains her current form because it allows her to get through her day without having to turn down sexual advances.

A busty redhead by decree of the Internet...? o.o;

Gotoh
Posts: 3518
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Gotoh » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:47 pm

Which is besides the point: there's nothing stopping him from asking her. Just as there's nothing stopping her from simply calling her mom for advice.

User avatar
Error of Logic
Posts: 5066
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Error of Logic » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:53 pm

There really isn't. And yet it appears they have both failed to do so anyway.
My comic, Res Mira, starts here.

The crazy will bust loose. Either in the stories or on the forum. Or both at the same time.

Mad theory: Eulice is actually a retired succubus. This explains why she says DiDi Chastel looks like she did in her younger years. She maintains her current form because it allows her to get through her day without having to turn down sexual advances.

A busty redhead by decree of the Internet...? o.o;

User avatar
Fluffy
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Fluffy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:51 pm

Or, we're being led to believe that Chloe never contacted her mother about all this. For all we know, she had, and it took place off screen for plot convenience.

Like another forum poster mentioned; maybe Chloe has already taken care of her little problem already and Teddy interrupted her before she could say as such - which I'm willing to bet that their theory is probably spot on; the joke being Teddy whored himself out for nothing.
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

User avatar
tau neutrino
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:28 am

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by tau neutrino » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 pm

X3N0-Life-Form wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:50 pm
My point is that regardless of what he thinks he knows about succubi (or even what we know) or has seen, the most logical and to the point thing to do is ask a bunch of very simple questions :
Do succubi have parents ?
Do you have any sort of mentor figure or teacher or friend that could help us figure this out ?

But as far as we know, he hasn't discussed the issue with Chloe at all, which I find a bit odd given his previously established curious nature and practical mind, especially given the length of time involved. Now, it's OK to bend characterization a bit in a comedy from time to time for the sake of a joke, but the last few chapters have been rather lackluster in that regard.
He's curious about how mechanical things work, but not cryptids in general. He never asked whether vampires were real and then put that conversation off for another day. He already knows a friend who's helping them figure it out, Pandora. Her other classmate, Torrid Intrigue, was going to kill him. He's met Chloe's mentor and teacher figure: Sgt. Slash-stab, who Chloe is definitely trying to keep in the dark.
Gotoh wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:10 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:11 pm
That only makes sense if you know what the *C-verse is.
If you're gonna quote a post, then do it in context.

That was in response to Error of Logic saying Teddy shouldn't assume Chloe has parents, on the grounds that she isn't human. My point was it doesn't matter that she isn't human, she still has parents regardless. Nor does Teddy have reason to assume otherwise, unless he somehow thinks she just poofed into existence. And the closest you'll get to that, is Mel.
Again, that only works if Teddy knows who Mel is and the circumstances of her birth.
Gotoh wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:17 pm
@Error of Logic: Then what reason would he have to think that she doesn't? :-??

There hasn't been a single instance I can think of (across all media) where any character simply sprang forth from the ether. Even emancipated children still have biological parents.
Like I said before, spirits and angels usually are thought of as not being born. Do you think angels in DC have parents? The youmu in Beyond the Boundary arise from human negative emotions. Traditionally, demons have been thought of as incapable of reproduction. Them having families is a recent concept in a few works like the *C-verse and Rosario+Vampire. Families lasting beyond the offspring achieving maturity is rare outside of primates. If Teddy looked up "Succubus" in Wikipedia he'd see
Gotoh wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:49 pm
But all Teddy has to do is ask and he'd know that Chloe at least has a mom (since Adora might've eviscerated her father).
Chloe eviscerated her father when she clawed her way out of him. This was probably the funniest chapter in the series; did people forget about it?
Error of Logic wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:53 pm
There really isn't. And yet it appears they have both failed to do so anyway.
For Chloe, that could be explained that she has no reason to think Adora would help besides getting a new victim. She was the one who urged Chloe to go to Tarturus in the first place, knowing how they handled succubi losing their virginity since she went there herself. If Adora did show up, there would be the uncomfortable fact that she killed her first few lovers as well as Chloe's father.
Last edited by tau neutrino on Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Error of Logic
Posts: 5066
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Error of Logic » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:49 pm

And worse, that she likely sees nothing wrong with that.
My comic, Res Mira, starts here.

The crazy will bust loose. Either in the stories or on the forum. Or both at the same time.

Mad theory: Eulice is actually a retired succubus. This explains why she says DiDi Chastel looks like she did in her younger years. She maintains her current form because it allows her to get through her day without having to turn down sexual advances.

A busty redhead by decree of the Internet...? o.o;

Gotoh
Posts: 3518
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Gotoh » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:42 pm

tau neutrino wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 pm
Traditionally, demons have been thought of as incapable of reproduction. Them having families is a recent concept in a few works
It's hardly a recent concept, or have you never heard of 'The Addams Family', which was a sitcom from the 60s (it originally debuted as a cartoon strip back in the 30s). Or the fact that Alucard (Dracula's son) predates the Castlevania series.

And in anime and manga, there are numerous series featuring nonhuman families; including 'Bleach' and 'So, I Can't Play H!' which both involve entire households of shinigami nobility. And since the *C-verse plays fast and lose with folklore and mythology (such as vampires being born and capable of reproduction) the wiki excerpt you linked to is pointless.

Which is also the reason Teddy doesn't need to read a comic to know Chloe has a mom, since all he has to do is ask her.
tau neutrino wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 pm
For Chloe, that could be explained that she has no reason to think Adora would help besides getting a new victim. She was the one who urges Chloe to go to Tarturus in the first place.
First, transferring to Tartarus was Chloe's idea, not her mom's. Second, why would she think her mom wouldn't be able to help her?

X3N0-Life-Form
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:22 am

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by X3N0-Life-Form » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:16 pm

tau neutrino wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 pm
X3N0-Life-Form wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:50 pm
My point is that regardless of what he thinks he knows about succubi (or even what we know) or has seen, the most logical and to the point thing to do is ask a bunch of very simple questions :
Do succubi have parents ?
Do you have any sort of mentor figure or teacher or friend that could help us figure this out ?

But as far as we know, he hasn't discussed the issue with Chloe at all, which I find a bit odd given his previously established curious nature and practical mind, especially given the length of time involved. Now, it's OK to bend characterization a bit in a comedy from time to time for the sake of a joke, but the last few chapters have been rather lackluster in that regard.
He's curious about how mechanical things work, but not cryptids in general. He never asked whether vampires were real and then put that conversation off for another day. He already knows a friend who's helping them figure it out, Pandora. Her other classmate, Torrid Intrigue, was going to kill him. He's met Chloe's mentor and teacher figure: Sgt. Slash-stab, who Chloe is definitely trying to keep in the dark.
OK, I see your point about selective curiosity, that's something I've seen in action. However :

He's never asked about vampire because he never had any reason to. And didn't follow up on it because he had more pressing concerns at the time. But yeah, I would expect him to follow up on that at some point.

He's actually got some good info off Pandora, but in general her trustworthyness is rather limited. Case in point, he's been looking for a suitable male to fuck Chloe for weeks, Pandora has known about this for a good while now, but she's only telling him now that it's basically pointless. Basically, I think she doesn't believe Teddy can solve this, but lets him try anyway to have a good laugh at his failed attempts to do so. Or get a good fuck off a mortal, as the case may be.

Finally, I can't lookup the relevant chapter in the archives, but does Teddy actually knows what Slashstab's relation to the girls is ? And even if he did, I'd expect Chloe to have more than one teacher, so he could ask if she knew someone more likely to be helpful. Hell, forget about other teachers, assuming he knows Sarge is a teacher/mentor, he could straight ask Chloe "Hey, maybe that teacher of yours could help ?". Chloe would of course say "hell no", but even a single panel of interaction between the two, talking about the issue would give the story more volume. Chloe's supposed to be the object that has driven the past 3-4 chapters, but she's only made a handful of apparances and we don't know what she thinks of her current predicament.

User avatar
tau neutrino
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:28 am

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by tau neutrino » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:25 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:42 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 pm
Traditionally, demons have been thought of as incapable of reproduction. Them having families is a recent concept in a few works
It's hardly a recent concept, or have you never heard of 'The Addams Family', which was a sitcom from the 60s (it originally debuted as a cartoon strip back in the 30s). Or the fact that Alucard (Dracula's son) predates the Castlevania series.

And in anime and manga, there are numerous series featuring nonhuman families; including 'Bleach' and 'So, I Can't Play H!' which both involve entire households of shinigami nobility. And since the *C-verse plays fast and lose with folklore and mythology (such as vampires being born and capable of reproduction) the wiki excerpt you linked to is pointless.

Which is also the reason Teddy doesn't need to read a comic to know Chloe has a mom, since all he has to do is ask her.
The Addams Family were portrayed as weird humans with magic, not demons. The shinigami in Bleach are the spirits of dead humans who were brought to the Soul Society. Almost all of them have no memory of their previous life in the world of the living. The biggest example, Rukia Kuchiki, had someone who came across with her that she thought was her sister, but doesn't have parents. She was adopted into a noble household, which might be the standard practice. The Arrancar don't have parents since they're Hollows transformed after eating other Hollows. The Wikipedia entry shows the common folklore and myths that Teddy could find out. He wouldn't know the *C-verse played fast and loose with the truth unless a cryptid told him or he was a reader of the webcomic.

I'll ask for the third time: do you think angels in DC have parents? Would you expect Abby to have asked Prudence if she had a mother who could help?
Gotoh wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:42 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 pm
For Chloe, that could be explained that she has no reason to think Adora would help besides getting a new victim. She was the one who urges Chloe to go to Tarturus in the first place.
First, transferring to Tartarus was Chloe's idea, not her mom's. Second, why would she think her mom wouldn't be able to help her?
No, her mother brought it up. As for her reasons, I already stated them.
X3N0-Life-Form wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:16 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 pm
X3N0-Life-Form wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:50 pm
My point is that regardless of what he thinks he knows about succubi (or even what we know) or has seen, the most logical and to the point thing to do is ask a bunch of very simple questions :
Do succubi have parents ?
Do you have any sort of mentor figure or teacher or friend that could help us figure this out ?

But as far as we know, he hasn't discussed the issue with Chloe at all, which I find a bit odd given his previously established curious nature and practical mind, especially given the length of time involved. Now, it's OK to bend characterization a bit in a comedy from time to time for the sake of a joke, but the last few chapters have been rather lackluster in that regard.
He's curious about how mechanical things work, but not cryptids in general. He never asked whether vampires were real and then put that conversation off for another day. He already knows a friend who's helping them figure it out, Pandora. Her other classmate, Torrid Intrigue, was going to kill him. He's met Chloe's mentor and teacher figure: Sgt. Slash-stab, who Chloe is definitely trying to keep in the dark.

He's actually got some good info off Pandora, but in general her trustworthyness is rather limited. Case in point, he's been looking for a suitable male to fuck Chloe for weeks, Pandora has known about this for a good while now, but she's only telling him now that it's basically pointless. Basically, I think she doesn't believe Teddy can solve this, but lets him try anyway to have a good laugh at his failed attempts to do so. Or get a good fuck off a mortal, as the case may be.

Finally, I can't lookup the relevant chapter in the archives, but does Teddy actually knows what Slashstab's relation to the girls is ? And even if he did, I'd expect Chloe to have more than one teacher, so he could ask if she knew someone more likely to be helpful. Hell, forget about other teachers, assuming he knows Sarge is a teacher/mentor, he could straight ask Chloe "Hey, maybe that teacher of yours could help ?". Chloe would of course say "hell no", but even a single panel of interaction between the two, talking about the issue would give the story more volume. Chloe's supposed to be the object that has driven the past 3-4 chapters, but she's only made a handful of apparances and we don't know what she thinks of her current predicament.
A reliable succubus would be one that upheld the traditions and encouraged Chloe to finish her assignment. That's why he listens to a misfit like Pandora.

Teddy's had interactions with Slash-Stab where she identified Chloe as her pupil, saw that she was a sadistic disciplinarian for the younger succubi, and that Chloe keeps the truth about her relationship with him from her. In the last one, he was also traumatized for life and wouldn't want a repeat.

Gotoh
Posts: 3518
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Gotoh » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:51 pm

tau neutrino wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:25 pm
The Addams Family were portrayed as weird humans with magic, not demons.
They were originally a nuclear family, but later adaptations had Gomez and Morticia being vampires and, presumably, so was their daughter Wednesday. Herman was a Frankenstein and no one knew what cousin It was suppose to be, other than a mass of hair.
tau neutrin wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:25 pm
The shinigami in Bleach are the spirits of dead humans who were brought to the Soul Society.
That only applied to Rukia and her older sister, Hisana. However, most of the Gotei 13 were born in Soul Society. It's the reason the elders of Byakuya's family opposed his marriage to Hisana, because she wasn't a true shinigami and because she was a commoner.

Ukitake and Shunsui were also born in SS, as noted in their bios in the official character book 'Souls'. So was Sui-Féng and her family, which served the Shihoun Clan. So the point still stands. The shinigami could reproduce.
tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 1970 3:39 pm
The Wikipedia entry shows the common folklore and myths that Teddy could find out.
Which one makes sense: looking up some wiki article, or asking the real thing who happens to be living with him? Or are you choosing to ignore that fact?
tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 1970 3:39 pm
No, her mother brought it up. As for her reasons, I already stated them.
Adora may have told her about Tartarus, but the decision to transfer was still Chloe's. It's no different than you making a suggestion to a friend. It's still their decision whether to take the suggestion, or not.

Also, you did not give any reason Adora wouldn't be willing to help Chloe, because as your own link shows, she's helped her in the past. Adora even tells her: "I haven't always been a grown up, you know, I've experienced this too." Funny how Chloe seems to have forgotten that.
Last edited by Gotoh on Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Error of Logic
Posts: 5066
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Error of Logic » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:02 pm

Children tend to pay more attention to suggestions from their parents, especially when puberty is throwing them for a million loops and the parent in question is offering them a way to get everything under control.
My comic, Res Mira, starts here.

The crazy will bust loose. Either in the stories or on the forum. Or both at the same time.

Mad theory: Eulice is actually a retired succubus. This explains why she says DiDi Chastel looks like she did in her younger years. She maintains her current form because it allows her to get through her day without having to turn down sexual advances.

A busty redhead by decree of the Internet...? o.o;

User avatar
tau neutrino
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:28 am

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by tau neutrino » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:52 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:51 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:25 pm
The Addams Family were portrayed as weird humans with magic, not demons.
They were originally a nuclear family, but later adaptations had Gomez and Morticia being vampires and, presumably, so was their daughter Wednesday. Herman was a Frankenstein and no one knew what cousin It was suppose to be, other than a mass of hair.
Herman? Vampires? Sounds like you're getting the Addams mixed up with The Munsters.
Gotoh wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:51 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:25 pm
The shinigami in Bleach are the spirits of dead humans who were brought to the Soul Society.
That only applied to Rukia and her older sister, Hisana. However, most of the Gotei 13 were born in Soul Society. It's the reason the elders of Byakuya's family opposed his marriage to Hisana, because she wasn't a true shinigami and because she was a commoner.

Ukitake and Shunsui were also born in SS, as noted in their bios in the official character book 'Souls'. So was Sui-Féng and her family, which served the Shihoun Clan. So the point still stands. The shinigami could reproduce.
That's not most of the Gotei 13. Is that officially stated? Demons would be be identified with the Arrancar, if Teddy knew about Bleach in the first place. How does shinigami reproducing at whatever level mean succubi do too?
Gotoh wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:51 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 1970 3:39 pm
The Wikipedia entry shows the common folklore and myths that Teddy could find out.
Which one makes sense: looking up some wiki article, or asking the real thing who happens to be living with him? Or are you choosing to ignore that fact?
As shown with vampires, he has no interest in delving into cryptids. He'd just remain at the level of common knowledge instead of grilling Chloe about it.
Gotoh wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:51 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 1970 3:39 pm
No, her mother brought it up. As for her reasons, I already stated them.
Adora may have told her about Tartarus, but the decision to transfer was still Chloe's. It's no different than you making a suggestion to a friend. It's still their decision whether to take the suggestion, or not.

Also, you did not give any reason Adora wouldn't be willing to help Chloe, because as your own link shows, she's helped her in the past. Adora even tells her: "I haven't always been a grown up, you know, I've experienced this too." Funny how Chloe seems to have forgotten that.
It was a mutual decision. Adora would have to approve it after all. Chloe was feeling desperate after hurting her friends. She doesn't think Adora won't help her, just that her help would be convincing Chloe to kill Teddy or someone else, just like Adora presumably did when she experienced it.

Gotoh
Posts: 3518
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Gotoh » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:19 pm

tau neutrino wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:52 pm
Herman? Vampires? Sounds like you're getting the Addams mixed up with The Munsters.
If you click the link to the Addams Family page, you'll see one of them (I forget his name) is a Frankenstein monster. Though you're correct that I got him confused with Herman Munster.
tau neutrino wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:52 pm
That's not most of the Gotei 13. Is that officially stated? Demons would be be identified with the Arrancar, if Teddy knew about Bleach in the first place. How does shinigami reproducing at whatever level mean succubi do too?
Yes, the character book 'Souls', 'The Official Bootleg' (it's the actual title of the second book), and 'Unmasked' are all official supplementary material to 'Bleach'. I didn't go over the entire Gotei since I didn't feel it was necessary. The majority of them were in fact, born in Soul Society because the shinigami can reproduce just as humans can.

Going back to original point, monsters reproducing is hardly a recent concept.
tau neutrino wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:52 pm
As shown with vampires, he has no interest in delving into cryptids. He'd just remain at the level of common knowledge instead of grilling Chloe about it.
Teddy: "Hey, Chloe, do you have parents?"
Chloe: "I've got a mom. Why?"
Teddy: "''cuz she might be able to help. Can't hurt to ask, right?"

That's hardly grilling anyone.
tau wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:52 pm
She doesn't think Adora won't help her, just that her help would be convincing Chloe to kill Teddy or someone else, just like Adora presumably did when she experienced it.
When and where did Chloe say that? :-\

User avatar
Fluffy
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Fluffy » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:02 pm

@Gotoh - You mean Lurch (the butler/man servant)? The one who only speaks in grumbles/groans?

Yeah, I could totally see him as a sort of frankenstein monster - or a ghoul, of some sort.
tau neutrino wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:52 pm
She doesn't think Adora won't help her, just that her help would be convincing Chloe to kill Teddy or someone else, just like Adora presumably did when she experienced it.
...you mean do what a succubus is supposed to do in order to survive? :|

Of course, Adora would tell Chloe to just get it over with. She's her daughter, after all - doubt Adora would be thrilled to find out her daughter has been deliberately starving herself because she doesn't want to hurt anyone. If she got mad at Chloe over such stupidity; I honestly couldn't blame her.
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

Gotoh
Posts: 3518
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Dangerously Chloe 25-09-17 Overdid the Shape Shifting

Post by Gotoh » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:07 am

@Fluffy: That was his name. I always remember the others names, except his.

Post Reply