Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

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TwoWayStar
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by TwoWayStar »

edisnooM wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:08 pm
Let's see, Teddy has been forcibly gender swapped. As part of that he feels uncontrollable pleasure at the mere touch of a male, so strong he has to fight to keep his legs shut. And seemingly as a result of the forced change Teddy's gender identity and sexual orientation appear to have been affected. Yet none of this seems even slightly questionable? Forced gender reassignment and change of someones gender identity / sexual orientation doesn't raise an eyebrow?

Let's look at this another way. Say there was some other character, a girl who is a lesbian, not interested in guys in the slightest. Someone injects her with a drug without her consent that makes her feel uncontrollable sexual pleasure, so that she has to fight to keep her legs closed, at the mere touch of a guy. It also has the effect of making her much more sexually active and an exhibitionist. Do you find that at all sketchy?

Okay for one,let's keep this comparison equal shall we? if you said a girl who is heterosexual, not interested in girls in the slightest. Someone injects her with someone else's blood (not a drug...wow way to bring that in) without consent that makes her feel sexual pleasure (IF it was uncontrollable, Teddi would have been sleeping with any number of boys AGES AGO! Heck, fastest way to find a strong man even some of you all have said dates/handies aren't efficient) so that she has to fight to keep her legs closed at the mere touch of a girl ("to keep her legs closed" very moralistic and judging right there. Again, if it was so hard, how has Teddi done all these handjob dates buddy.

It also has the effect of making her much more sexually active and an exhibitionist.

Hold on there Jethro. That is a LOT of assumptions. Easiest one to start with the 'exhibitionism'. Teddi said being a girl made him feel more free and able to wear and do what he wants. The blood did NOT do that. That is Teddi going "Hey I'm a cute girl, a sexy girl even. I wanna wear cute, sexy girl stuff!". Now we can start a whole discussion on toxic masculinity and the way it restricts boys from expressing themselves through their outer appearance and behavior but..let's not lmao. Point is, it's a choice of fashion. And me personally, if I got turned into a good-looking guy, I'd probably show off my supposed pecs and abs and shiz with more revealing clothes cause it would be totally different from my experiences in my body before. I'd probably take more walks at night as well.

More sexually active I'd say was just circumstances. Teddi wouldn't be doing ALL of these dates if Chloe didn't need it. Probably would have tried to find someone he'd want to date, rather than just someone who could possibly survive a succubus mauling. Simply going off his character of course...time is of the essence.

But if none of that suffices...then that there bolded line is simply your interpretation of events that have not been proven, Word of God or otherwise. It is not 100% or even more than 50% that the Reaper and Succubus blood is making him do this. He has SOME agency after all. Do you really not want to believe that a boy could simply decide to have fun with a sucky circumstance thrust upon him? It's simply GOTTA BE that he's just doing what Succubus and Reaper blood make him do? Sounds lieka terrible story to me.

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Error of Logic
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Error of Logic »

dmra wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:28 am
If he is going by what Pandora said on that page then I've got a bridge I'd like to sell him because he if he is he comes across as dumb as a box of hammers..

She starts talking about legends of human men surviving and then goes on to say they were really "manly men". So we're talking legends rather than definite facts and all those legends go on to stress just how "manly" those heroes had to be.

To which Teddy responds like "football players".

Now I don't know how much time Teddy spent studying myths rather than mechanical science but even the smallest knowledge should told him that the type of man who is "manly" enough to be legendary is hardly normal. So even the NFL (or whatever the Canadian equivalent is) top draft pick is hardly likely to match up let alone the star quarter back of a pretty minor high school.

Tedddy really should be a whole lot smarter than that.
Thank you! :)

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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by brasca »

tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:00 am
Gotoh wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:28 pm
Cortez wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:46 pm
Right. At best this is like when a Vampire's servant looks for humans for their master to feed on, except Teddy is looking for someone that can survive a night with Chloe.
Since when do vampires need anyone to find food for them? They always get it themselves.
You forgot about Eleanor?
Gotoh wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:14 am
@JoybuzzerX: Re-read what Chloe and Pandora told Abby in the first two panels, here.

The first few boys Chloe sleeps with will die, until she finally learns to control herself. So Fluffy's point stands. Teddy's lining these guys up to be slaughtered, without telling them what they're really in for - so he and Chloe won't have to die.
He's going by what Pandora said about really manly men being able to survive.
Thank you for researching that. Although I doubt it will convince the naysayers. While I do think Ash would be the best choice as long as he remains ignorant of what Chloe is since he is a cryptid hunter, the only one who knows about him is Chloe and she's done nothing to fix her problem.

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Error of Logic
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Error of Logic »

As long as Chloe doesn't hulk out in the middle of the proceedings, I think she'll be fine with Ash. Ash didn't manage to recognize Brooke for what she was until he drove her to shape-shift, and succubi are better at disguising themselves.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Gotoh »

tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:00 am
Gotoh wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:28 pm
Since when do vampires need anyone to find food for them? They always get it themselves.
You forgot about Eleanor?
Operative word highlighted and underlined in red, 'cuz Layla gets her own grub (also shown in one of the Vol.4 bonus stories, 'cuz she feeds off Tiff regularly).
tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:00 am
He's going by what Pandora said about really manly men being able to survive.
Nothing said there changes what she and Chloe told Abby, unless you honestly think a highschool jock is "legendary".

Also, note that Chloe said demon boys are (quote): "far more durable" than humans. Yet, in the very next panel she and Pandora said they've still gotten their penises ripped off during sex. If a succubus can do that to a demon, I doubt any highschooler's chances of survival are gonna be better (excluding Faith and Ash).

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brasca
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by brasca »

Teddi doesn't have many options as explained by Pandora so this is the best that can be done. Perhaps Teddi could ask if there are other cryptids aside from demons. Dio was attracted to her and I think a vampire could handle it, but there's still a lot about the supernatural she doesn't know. And even if she did it's not like she knows the address to Charybdis.

X3N0-Life-Form
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by X3N0-Life-Form »

Yeah, when someone says "Legendary man", I'm thinking more Hercules than "highschool kid who's good at sports".
Gotoh wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:45 pm
tau neutrino wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:00 am
Gotoh wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:28 pm
Since when do vampires need anyone to find food for them? They always get it themselves.
You forgot about Eleanor?
Operative word highlighted and underlined in red, 'cuz Layla gets her own grub (also shown in one of the Vol.4 bonus stories, 'cuz she feeds off Tiff regularly).
Silly nitpick highlighted and underlined in green. They don't always get it themselves, sometimes they can ask the maid to grab something.

dmra
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by dmra »

brasca wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:22 pm
Teddi doesn't have many options as explained by Pandora so this is the best that can be done. Perhaps Teddi could ask if there are other cryptids aside from demons. Dio was attracted to her and I think a vampire could handle it, but there's still a lot about the supernatural she doesn't know. And even if she did it's not like she knows the address to Charybdis.
Is Alchemy the only Reaper? He said he could have done it before Teddy saved his client's life but wouldn't be able to now. Unless Alchemy is the only Reaper who is attracted to other beings sexually why doesn't Teddy just ask if Alchemy knows another one who might be up for having sex with Chloe.

Because if there was that would solve the whole need to find a high school athlete who is sufficiently legendarily manly to survive the experience.

But no, the comic requires Teddy, who lets not forget is the kind of person who breaks into a museum just to try to study the inner working of a mechanical duck, to be so fixated on the high school jock solution that he can't think beyond it. Either that or to just be conveniently stupid enough not to come up with any of a host of potentially more sensible solutions than "well those blokes who used to bully me at school have got a lot of testosterone and muscles so surely there's a chance they might live through sex with Chloe."

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Gotoh »

brasca wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:22 pm
Teddi doesn't have many options as explained by Pandora so this is the best that can be done.
Which is ignoring that it's Chloe's problem, not his. Yet, she's doing nothing about it.

I'm not saying Teddy shouldn't care for Chloe's well-being, compassion for others is an intrinsic human quality. But Chloe should give more of a damn about herself, instead of moping while waiting for Teddy to find a solution for her, or simply waiting to die.
brasca wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:22 pm
there's still a lot about the supernatural she doesn't know. And even if she did it's not like she knows the address to Charybdis.
How would she not know the address when she used to attend school there? Even if she didn't, she can easily look up the address in the directory, or online, or she could ask her mom. Speaking of whom, why doesn't she ask Adora for advice? :-\

Chloe has options available to her, but it's like she's completely forgotten about them.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Gotoh »

X3N0-Life-Form wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:32 pm
Yeah, when someone says "Legendary man", I'm thinking more Hercules than "highschool kid who's good at sports".
Exactly.
X3N0-Life-Form wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:32 pm
Silly nitpick highlighted and underlined in green. They don't always get it themselves, sometimes they can ask the maid to grab something.
Fair point. In most cases then.

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Fluffy
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Fluffy »

brasca wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:22 pm
Dio was attracted to her and I think a vampire could handle it
Um..when? I recall him going on a dinner date with Chloe that Layla was forced into arranging; but no actual evidence of him ever being into Chloe.
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

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edisnooM
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by edisnooM »

TwoWayStar wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:45 pm

Okay for one,let's keep this comparison equal shall we? if you said a girl who is heterosexual, not interested in girls in the slightest. Someone injects her with someone else's blood (not a drug...wow way to bring that in) without consent that makes her feel sexual pleasure (IF it was uncontrollable, Teddi would have been sleeping with any number of boys AGES AGO! Heck, fastest way to find a strong man even some of you all have said dates/handies aren't efficient) so that she has to fight to keep her legs closed at the mere touch of a girl ("to keep her legs closed" very moralistic and judging right there. Again, if it was so hard, how has Teddi done all these handjob dates buddy.

Ok I'm kind of confused by what you're saying here. The point of my alternative angle was to strip away some of the elements to take it to a more basic form. I.e. a girl without any interest in men injected with a "foreign substance" (doesn't matter what you call it the effects are the same) that forces her to feel uncontrollable sexual pleasure that she has to fight to keep her legs closed. That is basically where Teddy is right now, he even said he was a lesbian not long ago which I think was stupid but there you are. And Teddy himself made the comment about having to fight to keep his legs closed, so I'm not sure why you're mad at me for that.



It also has the effect of making her much more sexually active and an exhibitionist.

Hold on there Jethro. That is a LOT of assumptions. Easiest one to start with the 'exhibitionism'. Teddi said being a girl made him feel more free and able to wear and do what he wants. The blood did NOT do that. That is Teddi going "Hey I'm a cute girl, a sexy girl even. I wanna wear cute, sexy girl stuff!". Now we can start a whole discussion on toxic masculinity and the way it restricts boys from expressing themselves through their outer appearance and behavior but..let's not lmao. Point is, it's a choice of fashion. And me personally, if I got turned into a good-looking guy, I'd probably show off my supposed pecs and abs and shiz with more revealing clothes cause it would be totally different from my experiences in my body before. I'd probably take more walks at night as well.

So the fact that it happened after the forced genderswap, is completely contrary to Teddy's personality as we have seen it, and after we have already seen him make some pretty sketchy comments (change of gender identity, sharing the experience with Abby) and the fact that he isn't just wearing different clothes but is actually stripping off for adults, none of that raises any red flags for you?

More sexually active I'd say was just circumstances. Teddi wouldn't be doing ALL of these dates if Chloe didn't need it. Probably would have tried to find someone he'd want to date, rather than just someone who could possibly survive a succubus mauling. Simply going off his character of course...time is of the essence.

Really? So the fact that this is completely unlike the Teddy we have seen previously, (he was not a prude, but hardly sex-crazed), and yet since the forced change has been pretty freely engaging in sexual activities, beyond the dates as well, doesn't seem odd? The fact that we have it on record about the forced pleasure doesn't give pause? The fact that he is quite happily stripping for a room of adults? None of that seems out of character? His solution for every problem this arc seems to be sex it up.

But if none of that suffices...then that there bolded line is simply your interpretation of events that have not been proven, Word of God or otherwise. It is not 100% or even more than 50% that the Reaper and Succubus blood is making him do this. He has SOME agency after all. Do you really not want to believe that a boy could simply decide to have fun with a sucky circumstance thrust upon him? It's simply GOTTA BE that he's just doing what Succubus and Reaper blood make him do? Sounds lieka terrible story to me.

You're right it is a terrible story. This entire arc is pretty awful in my opinion. I have been reading the comic since it started and this latest arc has taken the story and characters I had thus far enjoyed to such skeevy extents it almost seems like an entirely different comic. I keep reading in the ever diminishing hope that it may yet course correct and get back to something resembling what hooked me in the first place.

But let's look at what is established in the narrative of this arc. Teddy has been forcibly gender swapped without his consent. Apparently as part of that forced transformation his gender identity / sexual orientation have been affected as well. And as part of the forced transformation, he also feels forced pleasure at the mere touch of a male.

All of this is part of the established narrative, it colours everything that comes after it in the same way that Teddy's pheromones colour every interaction he has with the boys and girls he's been "testing" and "helping". Who also by the by seem to be having "fun" and "enjoying" themselves.

Teddy may have "agency" but if you can honestly look at all that, and how he has been acting this arc and think that he hasn't been affected at all, or that it isn't even slightly sketchy those are some pretty strong rose-tinted glasses you're wearing.

Gotoh
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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Gotoh »

edisnooM wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:08 am
So the fact that it happened after the forced genderswap, is completely contrary to Teddy's personality as we have seen it.
I liken it to what Ace said he experienced while he was stuck as a girl (panels 2 and 5, here), except he handled it better and remained himself.

One might argue it was due to Ace not being injected with succubus blood, but neither was Kade and he responded almost the same as Teddy by accepting that he was female (note what Twiggit said in panel 5).

But in all three cases, the gender change was involuntary and so were the hormonal changes that came with it. The difference being, Ace kept his under control and continued to fight it up until the moment Kade kissed him. Whereas Kade and Teddy basically gave in (not that it took much in Kade's case).

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Cortez »

Gotoh wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:28 pm
Since when do vampires need anyone to find food for them? They always get it themselves.
You're not familiar with classic Vampire tales i guess.


Ash doesn't know she's a succubus and he already told her he'd be down for another go.
Doesn't mean he won't find out, now does It? Especially with have violent a Succubus first time is supposed to be like. The risks outweigh any benefits.

It didn't take all that much for Gabby and Tandy to figure out demons where around after all and Ash isn't an idiot.
I liken it to what Ace said he experienced while he was stuck as a girl
Except it's not remotely the same, Ace and Kade's transformations included a personality change, hence the Grace and female Kade personalities.

It's not the same for Teddy, who still has agency and everything he has done has been his choice.

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Re: Dangerously Chloe 14-08-17 You Were My First Guy

Post by Gotoh »

Cortez wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:32 am
Doesn't mean he won't find out, now does It? Especially with have violent a Succubus first time is supposed to be like. The risks outweigh any benefits.
Ash made out with three succubi for an hour and a half and walked away none the wiser. But seeing as Chloe's seemingly forgotten about him, it isn't an issue.
Cortez wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:32 am
It didn't take all that much for Gabby and Tandy to figure out demons where around after all.
That was entirely due to Gabrielle, who happens to specialize in interrogation. Tandy initially didn't care what was going on in Teddy's household, so Gabrielle conducted the investigation on her own and came to Tandy with her findings.

There's been no indication that Ash has had training in the same field. Therefore, you can't assume he'll figure out Chloe's a succubus just because Gabrielle did.
Cortez wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:32 am
IExcept it's not remotely the same, Ace and Kade's transformations included a personality change, hence the Grace and female Kade personalities.

It's not the same for Teddy, who still has agency and everything he has done has been his choice.
So you're saying it's in character for him to be this hormonally charged (note what he said in panel 2), and to lead guys on while setting them up for someone else, who might kill them? That doesn't strike you as a change in personality? :-\

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