Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6of 6

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Judanas
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Judanas » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Brux wrote:I sure as hell wouldn't care about this other personality's whims, and do anything in my power to get the chip removed, disabled and destroyed in the most efficient way possible. I'd treat it the same way as one would treat a "personality" emerging in a dissociative mental state, a phantom created to drive the body around (and, theoretically, ensure its survival) while its owner is unconscious.
'Being an awful person' doesn't remove something's right to life, is however a concern for this situation.

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Fluffy
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Fluffy » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:19 pm

Even being mindful of the supernatural world they live in and the magic that allowed the gender bending to happen in the first place, I seriously can't understand how anyone can claim that Acina/Grace is a completely different person altogether when the way she describes how she even came to be in her current state is the very definition of Dissociative Personality Disorder (a person goes through a rather traumatic experience, strongly represses those memories, and develops a split personality as a result). The only real difference between her case and a real world case being that, when she's in charge, she can transform the host body into the gender she identifies with. Also, just because she has that ability doesn't change the fact it is still Ace's body she's using for her own pleasure.

The real question isn't if it's wrong to terminate Acina/Grace's existence - it's why should Acina/Grace's well being be considered more valuable/important than Ace's - a young man who is currently living in a constant state of paranoia/fear because he's convinced some weirdo is sneaking into his room once a month to dress him in drag.
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Maechris
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Maechris » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:06 am

Judanas wrote:
Brux wrote:I sure as hell wouldn't care about this other personality's whims, and do anything in my power to get the chip removed, disabled and destroyed in the most efficient way possible. I'd treat it the same way as one would treat a "personality" emerging in a dissociative mental state, a phantom created to drive the body around (and, theoretically, ensure its survival) while its owner is unconscious.
'Being an awful person' doesn't remove something's right to life, is however a concern for this situation.
Beware, expressing pro-life views is now borderline illegal in France.

One's freedoms end where the other person's begin.
It's Ace's body and he's mostly going to have to be the one living with the consequences of what either of them does. The female Ace was only born due to ridiculous levels of incompetence and leniency towards the witch students and the freaky spirit trapped inside of a doll. She originally wasn't a person of her own and now for unknown reasons has became one, but her presence affects Ace's life.

Frankly as a ~14 year old he is in no position to deal with this problem himself. The people responsible for his situation (the witch coven, the school staff, and if she has anything to do with it, Tiff) should either move Grace into a separate body, artificial or not, or remove her when they learn of her through whatever means neccessary.

But it won't happen because Kade wants to get some tail and apparently Dio is on Kade's level now.And his whole family is woefully unaware and absolutely incompetent, so they can't even find out their son morphs to girl instead of wolf.
More often than not people fail to see the entirety of the issue, and focus on a single facet of it. Ask yourself what makes you right before you set fire on other people for being wrong. // "Chemical reactions between the kawaii and uguu hormones.Within the Desu Gland. This is near to the upper Moe muscle."

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Fluffy
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Fluffy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:08 am

I think you meant Tia - as Tiffany had nothing to do with Ace's personal Hell.
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Gotoh
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Gotoh » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:26 am

Maechris wrote:[The female Ace was only born due to ridiculous levels of incompetence and leniency towards the witch students and the freaky spirit trapped inside of a doll.
The CH faculty wasn't lenient. There were rules against bringing cursed artifacts to the school, which Mel chose to disregard, despite Jacqui warning her. The incompetency was their own for letting the Tiresias Orb out of their sight, knowing there'd be hell to pay if the faculty found out about it. It's the reason they wound up getting the boot from CH and were shipped off to AA.
Maechris wrote:rankly as a ~14 year old he is in no position to deal with this problem himself.
Ace, Brooke, and Nina are all 15 now (there was a timeskip between Vols.3 and 4).

Judanas
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Judanas » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:21 am

Maechris wrote:Beware, expressing pro-life views is now borderline illegal in France.
I'm not sure that's quite the same. I don't think I was arguing that a fetus wasn't a person. I was going more along the lines of 'A kidnapper is a horrible person who is removing someone else's freedom and this makes them a criminal and godawful...but it doesn't make them not have the right to life themselves'. I was thinking about it less in pro-life sense and more anti-death penalty.
Fluffy wrote:The only real difference between her case and a real world case being that, when she's in charge, she can transform the host body into the gender she identifies with.
Well, that and Ace seems to lack a lot of the other symptoms that tend to indicate Dissociative Identity Disorder. It is an unnaturally smooth, ordered and seamless switch with very little overlap or effects on Ace (When she's not in control). Concidering Dissociative Identity Disorder is something that even professional psychologists are iffy on if it actually exists, I'm not really willing to call it such so quickly.

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Fluffy
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Fluffy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:35 am

Judanas wrote:
Well, that and Ace seems to lack a lot of the other symptoms that tend to indicate Dissociative Identity Disorder. It is an unnaturally smooth, ordered and seamless switch with very little overlap or effects on Ace (When she's not in control).
I don't know - I'd think it's having a profound effect on Ace, considering he's distressed at waking up once a month to find himself in drag, with no explanation as to how it was even happening/who was doing it; with things now made all the worse for him after having two people in the room while he 'slept' to keep watch, only to have them claim they 'didn't see/hear anything'.

You seriously can't tell me that, if you found yourself in Ace's shoes, you wouldn't be utterly freaking out by that point.
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by odalzara » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:57 am

let´s be honest here, this is a rape joke, the joke is that the buttmonkey is being fucked or at leats gropped and kissed without his concent, this is by all means a rape joke
and that´s cool, heck oglaf who did some strips for menage a 3 make rape jokes all the time
i think the problem here is that some people don´t want to see this as rape, so when other people say"i don´ like this because there`s rape on it" they get mad and try to some how twist the definition of personality, magic and ego to make it less creepy, but this is eerie cuties, and everything that happen here is cute and/or creepy, ace get´s raped here, if you want to laugh at his misery then do it if you want to get mad you can also do it and that´s great
but trying to make this not a rape joke is just stupid and makes you look like a fool

Judanas
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Judanas » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:57 am

odalzara wrote:but trying to make this not a rape joke is just stupid and makes you look like a fool
Could we keep insults out of this? I happen to think being incapable of punctuation or capitalisation does the same.

I don't think I've ever argued that this is a good thing. Heck, I specifically addressed 'This could easily be rape and almost certainly is if she's not a separate person sharing the body' as one of the two main options I had for it. I am, however, also curious about the possibilities it opens up and the interesting legal and moral questions that can come from the situation.

As I said before, the very concept about informed consent in the case of people with multiple personalities is almost entirely untouched in the legal system and the single case I could find ended without making any judgements either way.

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FuzzyFace
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by FuzzyFace » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:11 am

Given that Ash woke up with the dress on, I'm going to guess that no sex was actually had - it is traditional for females to remove their clothing for that, after all. And no particular reason to put a dress back on afterwards in order to sleep. And then we can ignore the fact that the dress still somehow fit Ash's male form. And ignore how - if this dress came with Dio, and Ash hadn't invited somebody there the previous month - the previous dresses showed up.

But I'm all for the "this was Blair fanfic" explanation. It makes a lot more sense than the story.

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Fluffy
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Fluffy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:21 pm

Judanas wrote:
I don't think I've ever argued that this is a good thing. Heck, I specifically addressed 'This could easily be rape and almost certainly is if she's not a separate person sharing the body' as one of the two main options I had for it.
And therein is the main reason why people are up in arms about this comic - because it is a case of two personalities sharing the same body; as the opposite personality is manipulating Ace's shapeshifting ability to transform him from a werewolf into a girl without his blessing/knowledge and using it as she sees fit.

Also, considering how Ace felt about Blair inhabiting his body (being well aware of Blair's presence and absolutely hating it; especially when Blair was threatening to hijack Ace's body as he slept and setting up make out dates against Ace's better judgement - how do you think Ace would feel knowing that Acina was doing the exact same thing to him, only this time, without his knowledge/blessing?
FuzzyFace wrote:Given that Ash woke up with the dress on, I'm going to guess that no sex was actually had - it is traditional for females to remove their clothing for that, after all. And no particular reason to put a dress back on afterwards in order to sleep. And then we can ignore the fact that the dress still somehow fit Ash's male form. And ignore how - if this dress came with Dio, and Ash hadn't invited somebody there the previous month - the previous dresses showed up.
Not necessarily. Some people leave their clothes on during sex for added 'hotness' (it counts as a kink). Also, Acina is very obviously not wearing underwear. All it would take is to hike the material up around her hips and the boys have easy access.

Also, if you notice how the dress drapes on Acina, it's very obviously ill fitting (most of the panels show the straps are slipping off of her shoulders - a properly fitting dress wouldn't be doing that. And Ace isn't all that broad to begin with - so the fact the dress still fits when he wakes up isn't surprising.
But I'm all for the "this was Blair fanfic" explanation. It makes a lot more sense than the story.
Same - as that would not only be in canon with the rest of Eerie Cuties (because it's a safe bet Blair would totally have done something like that - considering his approval of Ace's new body); but would automatically forgive the last six panels to - probably - everyone.
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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Dorgengoa » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:36 pm

We don't need to address the fact that the dress fits Ace in the morning, because Dio brought it without knowing Ace would turn into a girl, and would obviously have brought a dress that would fit him.
This is getting out of hand.

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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by odalzara » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:51 pm

Judanas wrote:
odalzara wrote:but trying to make this not a rape joke is just stupid and makes you look like a fool
Could we keep insults out of this? I happen to think being incapable of punctuation or capitalisation does the same.

I don't think I've ever argued that this is a good thing. Heck, I specifically addressed 'This could easily be rape and almost certainly is if she's not a separate person sharing the body' as one of the two main options I had for it. I am, however, also curious about the possibilities it opens up and the interesting legal and moral questions that can come from the situation.

As I said before, the very concept about informed consent in the case of people with multiple personalities is almost entirely untouched in the legal system and the single case I could find ended without making any judgements either way.
sorry about my punctuation mein herr

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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Mockery » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:13 pm

Judanas wrote: I'm the one who seems to be being yelled at for opinions most and even I don't think it's good. I'm more willing to give credence to the idea of two people sharing a single body and the implications thereof and kinda disappointed that those ideas go unexplored.
That's fair. There's an interesting story that could be had out of all the core concept. EC has never really been the sort of narrative to take that kind of close or serious look to begin with, though, and this short misadventure was certainly not the format to do it. It honestly needed more pages regardless of what they wanted to do--literally 99% of the time that passed over the course of the story was a four-panel montage: page one was a brief prologue, the three following pages were a slightly dragged-out introduction to FemAce, and the last page was roughly the equivalent of a wacky sad trombone telling us we should laugh.

The only person who really felt in character the entire time was Kade; he certainly isn't blameless, but has a ridiculous level of thoughtlessness, impulsiveness, and lack of reflection or malice to his hedonism that makes me feel like he's less culpable. He offered to help, and I believe his offer was genuine. I also think you could sit there and explain for hours why this would be problematic and he just. Wouldn't. Get it. This Dio probably would, and his reaction would be somewhere between "Don't care." and "Bonus damage!" I specify this Dio, mind, because he downgraded from cool-tempered and haughty elitist to just a jerk. ...actually, I lie. This Dio isn't just a jerk. His reaction to finding out Ace was waking up in a dress and furiously distressed about it was to offer to help just so he could make his life more miserable.

I have three great issues with FemAce:

1.) What other people have mentioned: the artwork doesn't do her in particular any favors. I'm fairly sure some of it is in the chin (she actually looks relatively cute in the very first panel of #3, where she's covering it up), but something in the eyes and what I imagine is supposed to look flirty just...doesn't come across that way to me.

2.) Her claims to be "the real Ace." When a new character is introduced and provides new information, the rules of narrative generally suggests what they are saying is valid: new data corrects and/or refines that which we've known before. I've gone over why I don't like this assertion more than once; tl;dr At no point does she feel like any sort of outgrowth of any aspect of Ace's personality, and asserting he's not "real" is kind of a bridge too far.

3.) Her statement about "on the plus side [....] I'm super uninhibited!" I mean, sure, it could just mean that she's out to have a generally good time and living for the moment. But given her posing in the dress and the "boing!" sound effects we'd seen already...I'm really doing my damnedest to not cast aspersions upon a woman who is comfortable with her sexuality and the exercise thereof. But damned if that line doesn't sound less like a personality description and more like a wet dream.

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Re: Eerie Cuties 08-03-17 I was a teen-aged were-girl pg 5-6

Post by Tako » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:24 pm

Well, there is still a page left... there is hope this is just a slashfic written by Blair or Tia Darkness in order to mess with Ace...

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