Eerie Cuties 09-05-16 Siren Brawl pg 11 of 12

[Spidrift]

PS.: We've already had pretty much exactly this discussion years ago, in terms of vampires vs. slayers...

The difference being that the writers have gone to a little trouble to show that vampires don't regularly kill humans these days. So on the one hand, they'll logically get fewer vengeful humans hunting them, and on the other, it's not too hard for human readers to like vampire characters.

Marine, on the other hand, has been depicted as a human-killer from the outset. That may be careless writing...

[Gotoh]

PS.: We've already had pretty much exactly this discussion years ago, in terms of vampires vs. slayers...

You say that like it's a 'bad' thing. It's bound to come from every now 'n then, given the nature of the series. The characters even discuss it themselves, sometimes.

[KeepsWriting]

PS.: We've already had pretty much exactly this discussion years ago, in terms of vampires vs. slayers...

The difference being that the writers have gone to a little trouble to show that vampires don't regularly kill humans these days. So on the one hand, they'll logically get fewer vengeful humans hunting them, and on the other, it's not too hard for human readers to like vampire characters.

Marine, on the other hand, has been depicted as a human-killer from the outset. That may be careless writing...

I can only find one place where Marine makes any mention of eating humans, which doesn't prove that it's a lethal process. It is here: http://www.eeriecuties.com/strips-ec/si ... pg_9_of_12

The whole "luring people into the water" thing might just have been to suck out the audience's souls. Non-lethally, like Chloe tries to.

I can think of two possibilities where Marine isn't a killer. I'll write them out because they're interesting. First off, Marine could know that Dusky thinks she murders people, and is willing to let him think that. Maybe she thinks that he can't be convinced of her innocence. Maybe she's had her elders drill into her skull the dangers of telling monster hunters anything that's half-way true. But in any case, that's a Marine who's willing to encourage Dusky's belief that she's murderous. Even though she isn't.

Secondly, Marine could be under the impression that Dusky knows that most sirens don't kill people. In which case she thinks that the question that Dusky asks her is something like "You allowed somebody in the profession of killing your people live, why would you do that?". And the mention of eating humans could be her intending to suck out his soul (and then return him to shore, so he can recover).

[Maechris]

She's a non-human sapient. Who says she has to obey the moral statutes humans have? I think it's likely if one would mention that she might kill another siren, she'd be aghast - that would be murder most foul!

And that, dear forum co-dwellers, is the first mistake people make when they attempt to apply arguments born of human sensibilities and morality to fictional nonhuman sapient species. If their brain simply work different than hours and is based on a different hormonal balance / brain's reward system than a human's is (what if an orc gets the highest pleasure out if visceral violence, a vampire or fae being is extremely tempted to drain prey dry, and munching on a human liver is the equivalent of four drinks and two climaxes to an average siren/mermaid?), or a dozen of different reasons for why their system of morality could be so different compared to ours, it isn't correct to measure them with human morality guidelines.

Worth noting again and again :
- If she can feed off things other than humans and her feeding habits are dangerous or lethal to humans, but she chooses to feed off of obviously sapient species anyways, yes, she is in the wrong.
- Humans have the natural right to exert defense against monster's feeding mechanisms, particularly if they're debilitating or lethal.
- If she can only feed by killing humans, this is automatic tragedy and a case of orange and blue morality, but point 2 still applies.

[Spidrift]

I can only find one place where Marine makes any mention of eating humans, which doesn't prove that it's a lethal process.

Tiff (and apparently also Tracy) located this whole adventure opportunity by tracking a series of drownings up the coast. Either this is a coincidence on a cosmic scale, or Marine has been drowning people. And drowned people tend to be dead.

[Gotoh]

@Spidrift: Tracy didn't know anything about the victims, until Dusky told her why Tiffany was there.

- Humans have the natural right to exert defense against monster's feeding mechanisms, particularly if they're debilitating or lethal.
- If she can only feed by killing humans, this is automatic tragedy and a case of orange and blue morality, but point 2 still applies.

I wouldn't consider Marine tragic in the third instance you mentioned. That'd be someone like Bosco ('Phantom Quest Corp.'. For those of you who're unfamiliar with the series, here's a brief rundown:

He's a reformed vampire, who's trying to kick the habit in order to be with Makiko (19 year old college freshman). So he put himself through hell by conditioning himself to withstand crosses, garlic, and direct sunlight. Plus, he only feeds 4 times a year at only 200cc's per quarter. And, for the most part, he's succeeded.

Except, it's taken a severe toll on his health, because it's left him anemic. So much, that Ayaka was able to overpower him in seconds, because he exerted himself and fainted. Whereas if he fed normally, like other vampires, he wouldn't have that problem. But he's content to continue to starve himself and let his health decline, so long as he can be with that girl he likes.

That's tragic. Marine maintaining a healthy diet because she has to, isn't. It is what it is: she's gotta eat. Assuming there isn't an alternative food source for her.

[KeepsWriting]

I can only find one place where Marine makes any mention of eating humans, which doesn't prove that it's a lethal process.

Tiff (and apparently also Tracy) located this whole adventure opportunity by tracking a series of drownings up the coast. Either this is a coincidence on a cosmic scale, or Marine has been drowning people. And drowned people tend to be dead.

Maybe Tiffany saw two separate drownings in the news, and assumed that there would be one on this beach because you can draw a line from the two beachs to this beach. Or maybe it was just the one drowning, but Tiffany assumed there was more than one. I'm just going to leave this link here, some evidence for the "Tiff jumping to conclusions" idea: http://www.eeriecuties.com/strips-ec/bulging_pecs...

Assuming that this beach is close to her hometown, it could be that Marine frequents this beach has relatives in the town that Charybdis Heights is in.

Or maybe the coast is prime feeding grounds for sirens, and one serial killing siren is moving up the coast. There would still be a bunch of sirens around the coast, but there only needs to be one murderous one to create mass drownings.

[Spidrift]

Ever heard of Occam's Razor? I really, really suggest that you apply it here. Because otherwise, you're tragically in danger of looking terribly desperate.

[Storm-forge mystique]

Logically, it makes sense to assume that the drownings are a part of how Marine "feeds."

Narratively, though, after this twist it would make sense for there to be a less direct, less culpable link between the two.

Tentatively, logic is still the safer bet, but let's not forget this is a comic in which these drownings are, whatever's caused them, the very first modern-day confirmed kill.

(Plus, that wave clearly wasn't Marine's doing...)

[dogsaregreat]

It is a moral being's duty to choose the lesser of two evils, and an individual ending one's own life rather than killing many innocents is the less evil choice.

So Marine, and presumably, her entire species, are immoral for not wanting to starve to death?

Yes. They are choosing to kill innocents. That makes them unambiguously evil even in a world of shades of gray.

[Sk'thloq]

So, by your reasoning, the moral thing for them to do would be to go extinct. By slowly wasting away from starvation. Young and old alike. So the parents should just watch as their children starve to death, and tell them, "No my child. The lives of humans are worth more than ours. We deserve extinction."

[Hyper Magi]

Unless you're a vegan, you're pretty much have to feed on "innocents". Can you really say any of the animals we eat "deserve" to die? The grilled chicken I had never did anything to me but I was hungry so...


Only way Marine can avoid that is if she somehow finds a prison with a pool big enough for her and they throw condemned prisoners in there for her to eat.

....But that's not exactly humane when it comes to an execution method, and who wants to be stuck in a pool all day anyway?

Then again the point is moot. In no logical world is suicide a "moral" thing to do.

[Spidrift]

Yeah well, Terrible Tragedy either way. Which, given that the EC universe definitely has joke versions of the medieval idea of Heaven and Hell, would merely strongly imply that it's the creation of a Medieval Loathsome Bastard God, and hence isn't particularly logical.

Anyhow, one strip to go on this story, so any big narrative reversals are going to have to be quick, and verbose.

[Sk'thloq]

In no logical world is suicide a "moral" thing to do.

Nor is the extinction of an entire sapient species, simply because they need to eat another sapient species.

[Error of Logic]

As for the animals we eat, there is an implicit deal: I feed you, take care of your needs, protect you, secure your bloodline... and one day, you take care of me and I try to make it end clean.

As for the afterlife... Maybe sirens go to the Grecian Underworld instead, or they aspire to Fiddler's Green? *shrug*