Dangerously Chloe 21-12-15 Can I touch it

[Tython]

That or he was frustrated with the events of the day and just wanted to get out of there asap.

[Mackus]

I can't believe I didn't notice it first time, but the way Lacy smiles and holds her hands in last panel... she's positively giddy!

Regrettably, this is wholesome comedy comics, not smutty comedy comics, so Teddy wont get any, but gaining another love interest... or at least a person of interest (like Trina or Slash Stab), is certain.

[cellabella]

Sigh.

No. Just no. This is heading to a very homophobic place, and I'm not here for that.

PLEASE don't let this lead to "I'm being raised by ev0l man-hating lesbians who have Georgia O'Keefe originals all over the place and hate men, but all I needed was to touch Teddy's magic peen and all the gay is gone!" Because no. No. Sexuality does not - I repeat, does NOT - work that way.

Lacy is an attractive cheerleader. There is no doubt that members of the football team offered to let her touch/see/whatever to them at some time or another. If she's super into Triana, chances are she really is into ladies.

I'm not happy that Pandora is basically making them do things against their will and the tenor of this entire storyline has been shady, but if this goes down the dark road of "Lacy's horrible lesbo moms have been keeping her from experiencing the joys of PAYNUS!" then it's game over for me as far as this comic is concerned.

[Sk'thloq]

If you think it will head that way, you must not be familiar with Pixie Trix.

[Varanus]

Regrettably, this is wholesome comedy comics, not smutty comedy comics, so Teddy wont get any, but gaining another love interest... or at least a person of interest (like Trina or Slash Stab), is certain.

While I do doubt this will lead to sex, we have had sex onscreen in this comic repeatedly so you can't say its impossible.

Sigh.

No. Just no. This is heading to a very homophobic place, and I'm not here for that.

PLEASE don't let this lead to "I'm being raised by ev0l man-hating lesbians who have Georgia O'Keefe originals all over the place and hate men, but all I needed was to touch Teddy's magic peen and all the gay is gone!" Because no. No. Sexuality does not - I repeat, does NOT - work that way.

Lacy is an attractive cheerleader. There is no doubt that members of the football team offered to let her touch/see/whatever to them at some time or another. If she's super into Triana, chances are she really is into ladies.

I'm not happy that Pandora is basically making them do things against their will and the tenor of this entire storyline has been shady, but if this goes down the dark road of "Lacy's horrible lesbo moms have been keeping her from experiencing the joys of PAYNUS!" then it's game over for me as far as this comic is concerned.

You seem to be reading a LOT into this that isn't there as far as I can see.

1. There is no proof that Lacy's family raised her to hate men, saying they wouldn't want her to have a boy over need not necessarily imply such a thing.

2. Men may have offered, but the difference here is her actually seeing it and realizing she is curious.

3. The only people Pandora has forced to do anything in this story so far are the boys she kissed into putting Teddy in the locker. Other than that she has just suggested things and observed.

At the least Lacy is simply curious about male anatomy after seeing it in person for the first time. At the most this will simply be a subversion of the old "I thought I was straight but I'm gay or bi" trope, turning it into a "I thought I was gay but I'm bi or straight" trope. The latter is hardly what I would call homophobic (let alone "very" homophobic) anymore than the other version is "heterophobic."

And if her parents do turn out to be against straight people, then it is no more awful than a story featuring parents against gays. The latter may be more common, but the former is not impossible.

[Tython]

At the least Lacy is simply curious about male anatomy after seeing it in person for the first time. At the most this will simply be a subversion of the old "I thought I was Straight but I'm gay or bi" trope, turning it into a "I thought I was gay but I'm bi or straight" trope. The latter is hardly what I would call homophobic (let alone "very" homophobic) anymore than the other version is "heterophobic."

And if her parents do turn out to be against straight people, then it is no more awful than a story featuring parents against gays. The latter may be more common, but the former is not impossible.

FTFY other wise I agree

[Varanus]

You caught me the very minute I fixed that typo.

[Maechris]

Sigh.

No. Just no. This is heading to a very homophobic place, and I'm not here for that.

PLEASE don't let this lead to "I'm being raised by ev0l man-hating lesbians who have Georgia O'Keefe originals all over the place and hate men, but all I needed was to touch Teddy's magic peen and all the gay is gone!" Because no. No. Sexuality does not - I repeat, does NOT - work that way.

Lacy is an attractive cheerleader. There is no doubt that members of the football team offered to let her touch/see/whatever to them at some time or another. If she's super into Triana, chances are she really is into ladies.

I'm not happy that Pandora is basically making them do things against their will and the tenor of this entire storyline has been shady, but if this goes down the dark road of "Lacy's horrible lesbo moms have been keeping her from experiencing the joys of PAYNUS!" then it's game over for me as far as this comic is concerned.

First of all, let's establish something : Lacy actually touching Teddy's groin, much less being in any way 'turned' by it is very, very unlikely.
Second of all, Lacy is clearly at least somewhat attracted to women, otherwise anyone and everyone would notice she's pretend-gaying right now.

But what you're saying sounds a little odd otherwise. If Lacy was raised by a lesbian couple with four sisters and all of them were dating exclusively girls even since the moment they started dating, there's an immense possibility (because, contrary to popular belief, not all "members of the football team" can't take the clue if a girl only dates girls) she indeed never got a chance to check if she's *lesbian or bisexual*, in the same manner people raised with only the heterosexual model in mind never got to check early on if they're heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual either.

The problem we're experiencing here is that, due to political correctness and partially to lessen the number of odd fantasy flicks that would happen otherwise, it is considered poor manners and practically almost banned to lower a character's Kinsey scale number compared to the moment they were introduced. It can only stay the same or increase, through consensual sex acts, and it holds doubly true for female characters.

On the other hand, we're in a universum where two guys got magic-zapped into seeing one another as the peak of desireability and it was treated as a *joke*.
So, you can transition from straight to bi, bi to gay, and gay to ultra super mega gay, but if you start thinking you're bi, you can't turn "more straight" in fiction, and homosexual characters turning bisexual is for some reason "very homophobic"as well.

Except the scenario has two possible solutions to it assuming Lacy is, indeed, not a perfect 6 on Kinsey's scale :
1) The bad homophobic solution : Her mothers are indeed hiper ultra mega gay with misandry levels over 9000 (8000 if you're Japanese), and through the power of touching magic peenus she turns bisexual or straight because they've been denying her possibility of straightness all along. - Nobody sane does these stories anymore, as it is considered unhealthy form of wish fullfilment. "My girlfriend is an adult and has obvious sex drive but was never touched by anyone but herself and other girls" is an example of unhealthy straight male fantasy.

2) She *indeed* never got to have any sort of experience with boys simply on the accord of there being only one role model of relationship in her family, which everyone outside has seen with both herself and her sisters, and as all of them are either lesbian or bisexual they didn't really feel like anything was wrong or amiss with dating girls. This is perfectly excusable and sane, because it takes time and will to find role models outside of your family. I'm not going to needlessly prolong this post by addressing how this may or may not affect gay people raising children, but *parents being role models with their relationship can certainly stop bisexual children from realizing their bisexuality early on*, especially if at any point they were going to a school that wasn't co-ed.



However, I do not believe we will see a case of it here simply because the writers know quite well it isn't worth the drama to make a politically incorrect move like that. Like I said, *your experience always either increases or freezes your kinsey's scale score* in fiction.

[Spidrift]

Or... The joke may be that Lacy does indeed get her token touch, or even slightly more, grins broadly, kisses Teddy cheerfully ... on the cheek ... and thanks him for this experience, because she's now happily confirmed that she is indeed a lesbian.

Cue crushed-looking Teddy. Which is usually the point of the exercise.

[Tython]

Except that is not the joke that is being set up considering that Teddy was really frustrated due to the events of the day and basically had an open mouth insert foot moment that he thought she wouldn't take seriously but she did and now he has to figure a way out.

[Zafnak]

Man, the things Teddy will agree to in order to get his pants back...

[cellabella]

First of all, let's establish something : Lacy actually touching Teddy's groin, much less being in any way 'turned' by it is very, very unlikely.
Second of all, Lacy is clearly at least somewhat attracted to women, otherwise anyone and everyone would notice she's pretend-gaying right now.

OK, fair enough. I think Chloe will put a stop to things before they get started, or Naomi will pop up out for blood or something.

But what you're saying sounds a little odd otherwise. If Lacy was raised by a lesbian couple with four sisters and all of them were dating exclusively girls even since the moment they started dating, there's an immense possibility (because, contrary to popular belief, not all "members of the football team" can't take the clue if a girl only dates girls) she indeed never got a chance to check if she's *lesbian or bisexual*, in the same manner people raised with only the heterosexual model in mind never got to check early on if they're heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual either.

Yeahhh, this is where we have the disconnect, I think. To me, there is no "checking" in sexuality. You are or you aren't. Period. I am bisexual. I have two sisters and two brothers. Not a queer one in the bunch. My parents are hetero. Not perfect Kinsey whatevers, but never having had any leanings toward same-gender sexual orientation. I didn't need to "check" anything. I'm bi because I was born wired that way already.

If Lacy is gay, she would be gay whether raised by lesbians, raised by gay men, raised by asexuals, etc. While being raised in a all-female household by lesbian parents might make Lacy more sensitive to gay issues; it would not somehow stifle her sexuality. There have been studies on this. Children raised by gay parents are not any more likely to identify as gay than children raised by straight parents.

So, you can transition from straight to bi, bi to gay, and gay to ultra super mega gay, but if you start thinking you're bi, you can't turn "more straight" in fiction, and homosexual characters turning bisexual is for some reason "very homophobic"as well.

That isn't what I was saying. What I said is that it would not be cool for Lacy to somehow magically decide she was straight or bi because all she needed was to touch some boy's joystick. As you mentioned, that is one of the oldest tropes in the book and it is very, very harmful and IMO, homophobic as hell, as it implies that any woman who identifies as gay "only" needs to touch the right magic penis to turn straight. I'm not sure how that is somehow not viewed as a very problematic and homophobic attitude.

Except the scenario has two possible solutions to it assuming Lacy is, indeed, not a perfect 6 on Kinsey's scale :
1) The bad homophobic solution : Her mothers are indeed hiper ultra mega gay with misandry levels over 9000 (8000 if you're Japanese), and through the power of touching magic peenus she turns bisexual or straight because they've been denying her possibility of straightness all along. - Nobody sane does these stories anymore, as it is considered unhealthy form of wish fullfilment. "My girlfriend is an adult and has obvious sex drive but was never touched by anyone but herself and other girls" is an example of unhealthy straight male fantasy.

Yes, this would be a gross and wrong road to go down.

2) She *indeed* never got to have any sort of experience with boys simply on the accord of there being only one role model of relationship in her family, which everyone outside has seen with both herself and her sisters, and as all of them are either lesbian or bisexual they didn't really feel like anything was wrong or amiss with dating girls. This is perfectly excusable and sane, because it takes time and will to find role models outside of your family. I'm not going to needlessly prolong this post by addressing how this may or may not affect gay people raising children, but *parents being role models with their relationship can certainly stop bisexual children from realizing their bisexuality early on*, especially if at any point they were going to a school that wasn't co-ed.

I just have a hard time parsing that, because of what I said above. My parents were certainly role models for me, but it didn't keep me from being bi. Mary Chaney, Dick Chaney's gay daughter, has written books about how inspired she was by her parents marriage and love for each other. That didn't prevent her from being a lesbian. I just don't buy that sexuality is determined that way. I do think that there are some people who struggle against their natural inclination because they feel they will be disappointing their parents. If your point is that Lacy *thinks* she is gay because she doesn't want to disappoint her moms, then okay fine. I could see that happening just as I could see a gay man thinking he is straight because he doesn't want to disappoint his het parents. But if this is the case, I then want something mentioning that Lacy's moms always assumed that she was secure in her sexuality and that they made it clear that they loved her no matter what sort of genitals she preferred on her partner.

TL;DR: If this somehow is a case of Lacy assuming that her moms want her to be gay and them telling her "Oh, honey, no. You have to be whatever you feel!" then cool. If this becomes a case of "the nasty lesbians have prevented Lacy from experiencing the joy of boners," not cool.

[Sk'thloq]

I think Lacy's interest in Teddy's tool is purely curiosity, rather than sexual.

[Sara Hysaro]

Ditto. She just seems excited, not aroused. If this were a bi realization story she'd be more interested in all of him and not the weird looking part. A man's attractive qualities are not isolated within his pants.

[Maechris]

Or... The joke may be that Lacy does indeed get her token touch, or even slightly more, grins broadly, kisses Teddy cheerfully ... on the cheek ... and thanks him for this experience, because she's now happily confirmed that she is indeed a lesbian.

Cue crushed-looking Teddy. Which is usually the point of the exercise.

I think Lacy's interest in Teddy's tool is purely curiosity, rather than sexual.

Frankly I agree and think these are the most likely courses of events. I'm just arguing because, you know. It's an important part of the internet curriculum. And for justice.

Yeahhh, this is where we have the disconnect, I think. To me, there is no "checking" in sexuality. You are or you aren't. Period. I am bisexual. I have two sisters and two brothers. Not a queer one in the bunch. My parents are hetero. Not perfect Kinsey whatevers, but never having had any leanings toward same-gender sexual orientation. I didn't need to "check" anything. I'm bi because I was born wired that way already.

If Lacy is gay, she would be gay whether raised by lesbians, raised by gay men, raised by asexuals, etc. While being raised in a all-female household by lesbian parents might make Lacy more sensitive to gay issues; it would not somehow stifle her sexuality. There have been studies on this. Children raised by gay parents are not any more likely to identify as gay than children raised by straight parents.

To be honest, all of the stories I've heard of people "finding out" or "coming out" kind of disprove that. Never had to do any myself, I have no doubt it could be your experience personally, but frankly, if every person just reached certain age, looked around at others, and went :
- Bisexual : Ooohhh, my dating pool's twice as big. Niiiice.
- Straight : Huh. Oh well, what did I expect?
- Gay : Wooow. My parents were wrong, my own gender/sex is totally the best!
Immediately and with no sort of experimentation or experiences involved, gay and bisexual people would not need half as many support groups.

I wholeheartedly agree parents' have no to minimal influence in terms of raising a kid on how the person's sexuality ultimately pans out (because otherwise, queer people would never come out of conservative households). It does, however, affect a young person's view of themselves, relationships, their dating pool (ex. being send, for valid reasons, to a non-coed school, or being taught to 'focus on learning and not bring girls home', etc.), and, somewhat sadly, their dating pool's view of themselves (if Jake's parents are conservative christians and people know this, queer people may find it bothersome to try and date him. If Mary was raised by a single mom [or, heck, even lesbians, but panning out that scenario does feel like "omg all lesbians hate men" ridiculousness], went to a girl's-only school before, had a girlfriend there, came to a co-ed school, and the first person she dated after they broke up was *also* a girl, people are going to take the clue that she's 'lesbianing hard' even if these were just her circumstances, or she's just a tad more shy around boys, but quite bisexual). Heck, it's not unheard of people to have a really bad outbreak of bad sex/relationships with one gender, decide maybe they're "not into these folk" and attempt to date the other. It's not neccessarily the most frequent way people find out/decide/identify they're gay/not straight/not bisexual, but it's part of a learning process.

That isn't what I was saying. What I said is that it would not be cool for Lacy to somehow magically decide she was straight or bi because all she needed was to touch some boy's joystick. As you mentioned, that is one of the oldest tropes in the book and it is very, very harmful and IMO, homophobic as hell, as it implies that any woman who identifies as gay "only" needs to touch the right magic penis to turn straight. I'm not sure how that is somehow not viewed as a very problematic and homophobic attitude.

It's not what you were saying, but at the same time it is truth in fiction and you later more or less confirm this is partially what you meant.
If a person is portrayed as gay, or just has seemingly been so, it is problematic and homophobic for them to develop an interest in the other sex in story.
If a person is portrayed as straight, them finding out they are not is often seen as positive character development and open-mindedness on part of the author. The exception to the rule being if author's known as a straight male and the character's a female, and the portrayal of the 'coming out' was done badly. Then it's just an inappropriate fantasy.

It isn't straightly *wrong* that people feel a little awkward to annoyed about a fictional character's sexuality turning slightly to highly more 'heteronormative', because frankly the constant implication that sexuality can be 'cured' somehow is getting on many a people's nerves.
It is, however, weird that if a fictional character's entire dating pool consisted of their own sex, it's inappropriate for them to broaden it, while if it consisted of the other sex (a.k.a so far, seemingly heterosexual), it is perfectly all right for them to experiment and broaden it.

If your point is that Lacy *thinks* she is gay because she doesn't want to disappoint her moms, then okay fine. I could see that happening just as I could see a gay man thinking he is straight because he doesn't want to disappoint his het parents. But if this is the case, I then want something mentioning that Lacy's moms always assumed that she was secure in her sexuality and that they made it clear that they loved her no matter what sort of genitals she preferred on her partner.

My point is that is a possibility and it can be portrayed in a way that doesn't make people squicky if done right, yes. Though as I did mention it's highly doubtful this development would happen. I do wholeheartedly agree your parents don't determine your sexuality and in fact only really have an opportunity to mold it through their genes or... Well, let's just say there's no healthy way for them to drastically alter their kids' natural inclinations permanently.

If Lacy only thinks she is gay I'd actually hope this is more of a case of 'lack of opportunity/just didn't occur to me' rather than her thinking "mom and mom would be disappointed". Frankly, I'd be a little sad if "non-standard" pairings of parents also brought up children in a way that made some kids feel their sexuality can 'disappoint' their parents.