Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

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Schmorgluck
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Schmorgluck »

Bambikles wrote:Bastoooooooon!!!! b-(
Let's hope no one in the archery club has pointy ears.[/obscure French reference]
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Gotoh
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Gotoh »

@Schmorgluck: It doesn't seem like anyone from the Archery Club is there.

CFT
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by CFT »

I really feel quite "uncomfortable" making this post because I'm usually strongly on the side of writers and "defend" them against the usual criticism by their fans, but ... honestly Magic Chicks is feeling increasingly "off" to me with each and every update of this Chapter and this latest page is sadly the epitome of that odd feeling so I figured I'll just go ahead and make "that post" here and get it over with. I don't want to cause too much of a fuss (and please be respectful in your replies), so I won't bother with debating my points below with other readers nor will I repeat myself in future threads (I don't believe that my opinion is that important to try and impose it on anyone). It'll be just this one-off occasion/mini-rant. ;)

So, Magic Chicks has been by far my favourite (and most enjoyable) of the 3 EC-verse comics (though I like all 3 a lot, each for different reasons), but since Chapter 18's most promising start, it is as if I'm reading an entirely different comic (quality-wise) than the one I've been reading for that past 17 Chapters. It used to keep me on the edge of my seat, eager for what's coming next, barely able to withstand the wait between updates, even during the more "quiet"/less eventful chapters. I cared about all of the (very-well-written) characters (major and minor ones), as well as about the world-building, I found the various existing plot-hooks (like Cerise's growing enmity towards Melissa, the secret "mission" the trio was assigned by the Charybdis Principal, Faith and Tiffany's relationship, etc.) incredibly intriguing and I couldn't wait to find out in which brilliant way they would be resolved, as I had yet to be dissapointed by anything I had read so far, quite the contrary. But now, I just ... don't feel anything any more. I barely care about how the current conflict will be resolved, or where the characters (even the protagonists) will end up after this is done, I'm not excited that the next page is up, nor do I anticipate it like I used to ... :(

I can't be exactly sure what the problem is but it seems to me as if MC has suddenly become aimless, lacking a direction and just flip-flopping between "cool" scenes without substance. As if the writers suddenly forgot both where they were going as well as how to properly present that "journey" and how to build up towards it (which frankly buffles me). Only in the last few updates we got: wildly fluctuating "powers" and abilities to cope with being physically hurt, totally arbitrary external interventions (that fail to at least contribute to character development), characters running away when they should fight and returning to fight when they should run (and changing between the two "stances" on a whim, as if they're Batman's Two-Face flipping a coin), out-of-character reactions (or non-reactions) and many more that I can't pinpoint now. All in all, a "mess" that threatens to ruin all the amazing buildup so far. Actually, at this particular moment, Magic Chicks seems to have out-of-nowhere inherited most of the "flaws" of the Vampire Cheerleaders comic (where they also seem to mostly wander aimlessly and just drop "cool scenes" and flashy pages with little substance and even less regard to the pacing of an online medium), a comic which I've always considered to be one order of magnitude less than MC in the quality department*.

And yes, I'm aware of the "but the Chapter isn't finished yet" counter argument. But that's no legitimate defence, since all great webcomics (e.g. Order of the Stick or Magic Chicks itself up until recently) manage to pull off the balance between a complete narrative and making each page exciting on its own (and that's why they're great comics instead of merely good).

But the most buffling thing for me is the "why?" question. Why did this suddenly happen? Why now? Nothing changed in the writing department (which continues to provide the same amazing quality in their other comics) and this chapter came right after two of the best ones so far (the camping trip and Mel's "origins" ones), so what's going on here? I frankly have no idea. Or I COULD BE TOTALLY WRONG, of course. Do other people feel the same or is this something that reflects more on me (did I change somehow?) than on the comic itself?

[note: before anyone jumps into blaming the whole art-change issue, let me clarify that while it coincides with things going "downhill", in my opinion it's just this, a mere coincidence, and my issue is strictly with the writing, and maybe a bit with the "directing" of the last updates, which should still be more the responsibility of the writer than the artist.]

*apologies to the creators of the VC comic for this rather harsh value statement, I only mean it in comparison with what I consider "masterpieces" of storytelling in the online media, which Magic Chicks also had been (a masterpiece) until now in my opinion. The VC creators are also clearly quite talented and much better at this than a great majority of people, it's just that I find them less stellar than the "top" ones in the field.
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Varanus
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Varanus »

While I certainly find this particular page's art rather confusing, I think your dissatisfaction with the current story may simply be the writer's taking the plot in a direction you personally don't want it to go. That is bound to happen sometimes with most series. Personally I think things have flowed fairly well until this latest update where Melissa somehow has run back to Cerise for no apparent reason despite running away earlier and finding out nothing beyond what she had already guessed (that almost everyone is brainwashed).

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Cranium
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Cranium »

I agree with @CFT problem with Dave and his writing since Chapter 18 began.

Battles are not Dave's strong point, comedy is. Problem is that since page 314 it been TWENTY pages and just now the battle MAYBE continues to final victor. If it diverts one more time away from final outcome then it just a joke being repeated over and over again.

I too find Vampire Cheerleaders just crazy but only been reading it since I got bored by lack of updates for Magic Chicks and other comics from Pixie Trix comics. Heck I found a few more new ones to boot.

Point being is that a lot of needless panels could have be written out and make for a smoother telling of the epic battle. Like instead having Dakota stabbing Cerise and Hecate then taking sword out. Less for Rain to do but fewer pages. Just to name something to could have been steamed lined.
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Gotoh
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Gotoh »

Varanus wrote:Personally I think things have flowed fairly well until this latest update where Melissa somehow has run back to Cerise for no apparent reason despite running away earlier and finding out nothing beyond what she had already guessed (that almost everyone is brainwashed).
That part does seem odd, 'cuz after freeing the Asian looking student, she implied the wand wouldn't be enough and hightailed it. Which lead me to assume she was either going to try to come up with an alternate solution, or maybe she'd consult with Sandi to see if she could come up with anything.

Then the new girls showed up, which made it seem as though Cerise would be busy fighting them (while dealing with the realization that Skye had been kidnapped right from under her, without her suspecting a thing). Which, theoretically, would've bought Mel some time. Instead, Mel decided to come and lead an all-out charge. :-\

Mel has never been much of a planner, but that seems odd, even for her. :-??
Cranium wrote:Battles are not Dave's strong point, comedy is.
You keep saying that, yet I've shown you several examples that prove otherwise.

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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Cranium »

I not agree with what you shown me. Nothing proven just your opinion.
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by vampire hunter D »

I think Cerise is the one who ran off for a bit. And Mel was after her. But yeah, not sure if it's the writing or just he way Shouri draws it, but something is off about this chapter.
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Gotoh »

@vampire hunter D: Mel magically swatted Cerise, here, then shrank Ava and ran off. Here's where she freed the Asian looking student, but realized it wouldn't be enough and ran off again. Then she came back.

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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by vampire hunter D »

But you at no pint ointed out where she went each time. I took it she ran off after Cerise.
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Gotoh »

@vampire hunter D: I dunno, the 2nd link made it seem as if she was retreating, seeing as she had a mob of thralled students after her in the last panel. So it'd seem odd for her to go looking for Cerise with an angry mob on right her heels. It'd be different had she freed some more students first.

Instead, she just sorta showed up right as Rain's group revealed themselves and basically sounded the charge. At least, that's how it looks.

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Zippy
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Zippy »

CFT wrote:I can't be exactly sure what the problem is but it seems to me as if MC has suddenly become aimless, lacking a direction and just flip-flopping between "cool" scenes without substance. As if the writers suddenly forgot both where they were going as well as how to properly present that "journey" and how to build up towards it (which frankly buffles me). Only in the last few updates we got: wildly fluctuating "powers" and abilities to cope with being physically hurt, totally arbitrary external interventions (that fail to at least contribute to character development), characters running away when they should fight and returning to fight when they should run (and changing between the two "stances" on a whim, as if they're Batman's Two-Face flipping a coin), out-of-character reactions (or non-reactions) and many more that I can't pinpoint now. All in all, a "mess" that threatens to ruin all the amazing buildup so far.
I think this is completely right, and where things really went wrong was the scene-shift to "Hekate Academy". Here's the basic problem with the plot - since then, Cerise has become a joke, to be humiliated by Melissa, "Skye" or even Hekate at every opportunity, with the fluctuating power levels CFT mentioned. Even Tandy wasn't allowed to be properly taken out of the fight! [I still think that, rather than being dragged by the hair, when Cerise came in saying "I love an audience", Tandy should have been following her in the black Hekate uniform, having been turned/"infected" by Cerise with the stab. It would have allowed the stab to have immediate consequences since the writers are averse to killing anyone, it would have fit with everything else Cerise had been doing, and generated some angst in the ninja camp about going against their "sempai". Oh, and it would have added someone who's been built up recently as one of Cerise's slaves to up the stakes, since no characters we've actually been following were turned by her and her sidekick in the first place - the most prominent ones are Chastity and Ava, minor characters who hadn't appeared for literally hundreds of strips beforehand!]
CFT wrote:But the most buffling thing for me is the "why?" question. Why did this suddenly happen? Why now? Nothing changed in the writing department (which continues to provide the same amazing quality in their other comics) and this chapter came right after two of the best ones so far (the camping trip and Mel's "origins" ones), so what's going on here? I frankly have no idea. Or I COULD BE TOTALLY WRONG, of course. Do other people feel the same or is this something that reflects more on me (did I change somehow?) than on the comic itself?
There's definitely something gone - have the writers lost interest in the scenario and want to get back to "normal" Artremis Academy and the "volcanoed" characters? The pacing has been upped, but not in a controlled way, in a "crap, we only have X pages left before cancellation, better wrap this up!" way, and Cerise-as-threat has suffered mightily for it. The moment Hekate started openly talking about Mel killing Cerise, she stopped being treated as someone who could end Melissa, and started being treated as someone who's only threat was the manner of her defeat.
CFT wrote:[note: before anyone jumps into blaming the whole art-change issue, let me clarify that while it coincides with things going "downhill", in my opinion it's just this, a mere coincidence, and my issue is strictly with the writing, and maybe a bit with the "directing" of the last updates, which should still be more the responsibility of the writer than the artist.]
I think you're being a bit generous to Shouri there for three reasons - firstly, the "direction" of the scenes is absolutely the layout artist's job, and we've had it confirmed that Shouri does the layouts herself more than once. [Not that Cassandra was perfect in that respect, of course]. Secondly, the art shift itself has caused confusion about who "Skye" was or wasn't post-reveal - if it's Rain, he's almost unrecognisable, and if it isn't... well, that's a combined failure of art & writing (and tagging, I suppose. Even if the system was semi-borked, EC and Chloe were still having their tags updated, even if sometimes belatedly). And thirdly... this story has always seemed to be "writing for the trade" in comic book parlance. So if it's already very slow at two pages a week, the fact that we've been averaging less than a single page a week for the past month hasn't helped anything, and although that was partly down to Shouri being sick for a bit, on the rest it seems to be as much as anything else the result of her having over-committed herself (running the Ma3 kickstarter(?), inking/toning most of Giz's strips, writing & drawing Fragile, colouring for IDW and attending cons on top of pencilling/inking MC. It's not so bad with EC - even if there's still five blueline pages in the archive, at least we can read them, but it's killer for this)

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Schmorgluck
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Schmorgluck »

I took the first panel as Cerise running away from the Resistance (hence the "rabble rabble" onomatopoeia) while Melissa was running away from Cerise's minions and somehow they both ended up facing each other.
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Zippy
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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by Zippy »

Logical to an extent, but you still have the obvious questions of why the "rabble" (1) don't swamp Cerise rather than waiting, then (2) once Cerise starts moving, charge at the brainwashed masses (their friends?) rather than at the cause of their brainwashing.*

i.e., there's a reason why, when this shot is used, it doesn't usually involve mix-and-match sides...

*The first point also applies in reverse to Mel, but not quite so much the second - once they perceive a greater threat than Mel to their awesome mistress, then it makes some sense for them to charge the new threat, whereas the anti-Cerise "rabble" don't have any reason to show loyalty to Mel.

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Re: Magick Chicks 29-07-14 Attack

Post by nobody1111 »

I honestly feel that there was a big genre shift with the last chapter, and I might be the odd man out and say that I actually enjoyed it.
I had more fun and suspense in this chapter then I had in any of the other 17 chapter that just flowed by and were at most amusing.

I would say that the genre shift to something a bit different is what people here feel odd about.

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