Magick Chicks 22-07-14 If that left a scar

[Abraxas]

I'm convinced that Cerise's fury is rooted less in Melissa being the leader and more about the thoroughly UN-earned advantages being handed to her - Tiffany's training, Coven leadership, Erotic attention, Hekate's Power-Up, the Tacky Wand, the school presidency, etc - compounded exponentially by Melissa's a.) lording those advantages over her and - so much more than anything else - b.) the constant, consistent, predicable shiving of Cerise's confidence and self-worth at the hands of someone she's had to rely on for leadership and trusted as a friend.

Melissa didn't lord any of those advantage over Cerise except perhaps the attention from boys and her leadership of the coven. The wand and Tiff's training were things she was embarrassed about, not boasting in, and she only revealed her new position as president to try to stop a mob from attacking her.

Heck she was a good sport when she beat Cerise in that duel, but that didn't matter to Cerise because Melissa still got recognition over it.

What really brought it home for me re: how desperate, isolated and lonely Cerise is was when she realizes that she's dying and wonders "if anyone will cry". That really got to me . She's had her own remarkable and hard-won achievements she earned by her own merit outshone and dismissed out-of-hand by an overprivileged and underworked pampered brat with baseless advantages who can't enjoy her own victory or thank the person responsible, she worships a goddess that insults her wardrobe by comparing it to someone w/ far more resources than her while sponging the same clothes off of her, her romantic attempts imploded on her through no fault of her own, she's undercover in two institutions full of people who'd consider her a monster to be killed if they knew she's a witch, and the one person Cerise was perfectly reasonable in imaging was on her side let her know they can't be trusted keeping her (hetero)virginity in confidence. On top of all that, Cerise has to run a daily gauntlet of abuse from someone she can't get away from due to the risk of being exposed and killed. Poor kid. Something had to give.

She has lots of freudian excuses certainly, but none of them come close to justifying the things she has done or indeed diminish how shallow her motivations are. I know you are stopping short of truly saying her reactions are justifiable, but I still think you are far too soft on Cerise. I mean what about her supposed girlfriend who she dumped in the volcano with the same indifference as the rest? She engineered the death of someone who had never done anything but care about her, and for what?

Let's not forget that it isn't as if Cerise had no popularity in the school, she just remained obsessed with ANY attention Melissa got. Melissa on the other hand had no problems with Cerise becoming popular in school, she just reacted to her questionable plans (pretending to be a lesbian) and dumb luck with her usual bluntness.

I'm going out on a limb and cutting Faith some slack - Cerise made it pretty clear that Faith was unaware of her connection, we were given a clue that Faith's absurd levels of popularity weren't based solely on her wit & charm. In fact, Cerise used that revelation against her to let the air out of her confidence in the same way she's terrified of Melissa using her virginity against her - another example of the abused taking on the characteristics of their abusers b/c they have the evidence of their own experience that abuse works.

Again I think you're too dismissive of Cerise's blame in all this. None of Mel's "abuse" of her amounted to anything near the mass-brainwashing and attempted (assuming Tiff and the others are alive) multiple murders Cerise has resorted to. And again Mel did nothing to prevent Cerise from attaining her own popularity in the school beyond pointing out very valid flaws in her plans. The only thing she shot down were attempts to usurp her leadership of the coven, which is a position she has a right to defend even from a friend. You also act as if Melissa was never put down or insulted by Cerise, their bickering has long been a part of their relationship, and likely helped hide from Melissa the real psychological problems that were growing in Cerise from it.

So what if Melissa has natural advantages and just blunders into some stuff. Thats a natural part of life. Some people will always have the leg up due to luck and circumstance. Its how things go

Melissa is abusive? Since when? Apathetic maybe when she shouldn't have been but I can't say anything Melissa has done warrants Cerise's psychotic and homicidal behavior.

Sounds more like someone is projecting their own anxieties into a character. NO MATTER how UNfair life is, and some people get dealt pretty ****** hands for life, Murder, Manipulation and Mind Control are never excusable alternatives. Cerise was not pushed into some corner and she broke... Cerise has choosen -some of those choices being really really stupid-

Cerise's issue is her Inferiority Complex,... So what if Mel is better then her as a Witch/Magical beinh? So what if Jacqui can have boys unzipp there flies by just a simple pass while you get the feeling Cerise has a hard time getting a guy... only for them to turn out to be gay! It doesn't matter. What mattered is oddly enough is despite all that Jacqui and Mel accepted Cerise for who she was... Cerise had two friends that cared about her... and she has pissed it away.

The thing I see, is Cerise has never seen herself as Mel or Jacqui's friend, She just hung with them for the status or the simple reason they didn't chase her off.IE They just put up with me... I mean the whole virgin thing is telling when she immediately thinks Jacqui is playing favorites. Whats sad is that the other two do see Cerise as their friend or did... Cerise may very well have broken the one real thing she had if she survives all this.

Mel is not Cerise's problem.

Cerise is Cerise's problem... Trying to blame Mel for all of this is basically ignoring the issue and trying to justify Cerise's actions.

[Bambikles]

The thing I see, is Cerise has never seen herself as Mel or Jacqui's friend, She just hung with them for the status or the simple reason they didn't chase her off.IE They just put up with me... I mean the whole virgin thing is telling when she immediately thinks Jacqui is playing favorites. Whats sad is that the other two do see Cerise as their friend or did... Cerise may very well have broken the one real thing she had if she survives all this.

Actually, according to Jacqui's own report, it's s pretty much the inverse. Mel (and thus, Jacqui) hung up with Cerise because her figure came in precociously and she was then the most popular girl among boys*. Then Mel and Jacqui's figures came in and the situation got reversed: once number one, Cerise became number two or even number three given she seems to have real difficulties to get boys. No wonder she's bitter and desperately wanted to have things back like in the old days. She'd like for Mel to be a nobody while she's the Queen bee. The question is, why didn't she leave before, if she doesn't want to be a supporting actress ? Probably thanks to Jacqui, who was the glue the maintained the coven. The second Cerise thought Jacqui would favour Mel over her, it all fell apart. Here, the "no lie" education clearly made things worse.


*Indeed, it may be because she never had to put any effort to get boys before that when Mel and Jacqui went ahead, Cerise didn't know how to seduce guys. Straight guys to be precise.

[vampire hunter D]

Mel and Jacqui may have begun hanging out with Cerise to be near the boys she attracted, but that was five years ago. Since then, they genuinly seem to thinkof her as their friend. Otherwise, they would have jettisoned her when she stopped attracting boys their way. Cerise on the otherhand seems to have nothing but anger and hatred towards Melissa. And that wound up being her undoing (notice, Mel hadn't done anything deliberate towards thwarting Cerise's popularity scheme. Cerise undermined herself out of her obsession with Mel).

[Gotoh]

Melissa is abusive? Since when?

Mel has been abusive at times. Such as casting spells on Cerise and yanking Jacqui by her hair, yanking both of them by their collars, repeatedly yanking Ava by her necktie and threatening her if she doesn't tell her what she wants to know, and let's not forget the stunt she pulled on Layla, just for snarking on her.

So Absinthe Green has a point there, though I agree that it hardly condones attempted murder.

Mel is not Cerise's problem.

Cerise is Cerise's problem... Trying to blame Mel for all of this is basically ignoring the issue and trying to justify Cerise's actions.

Agreed, for the most part, here; particularly the bolded part.

However, Mel isn't blameless as she, herself, noted how badly she'd been treating her friends.

[Abraxas]

... Catty is the more appropriate term, and Jacqui and Cerise do the same to Mel in turn,


Abusive is doing constant Physical, Emotional or Mental damage with little remorse or reasoning.

[Gotoh]

Jacqui and Cerise do the same to Mel in turn,

Such as....? Excluding the teleportation incident, that is., 'cuz I don't recall either of them treating Mel that way.

Abusive is doing constant Physical, Emotional or Mental damage with little remorse or reasoning.

Grabbing a handful of someone's hair and pulling hard enough to cause pain, is being physical. Notice how Jacqui was rubbing at her neck and the fact she was clearly not appreciative of Mel having done that to her (hence: "what's the big idea?!"). If you yanked someone by their necktie the way Mel does to Ava, you'd be lucky if all you get is an angry look.

And repeatedly casting spells on people, regardless whether it's provoked, or (in most cases) not - isn't much better. It'd be the supernatural equivalent of bullying, at the very least.

About the worst they'd ever done to Mel was not showing up for the summoning ritual, after they'd promised her they would.

[Varanus]

Yanking people around is standard comedic/forceful behavior in comics, if that's abusive than the majority of characters are.

[Gotoh]

@Varanus: You can't simply say all instances are the same. That's trying to handwave what she does as no big deal, when the ones she does it to clearly disagree.

The only other people we've seen do that are Twiggit and Brooke to Ace and Kade respectively; neither of whom were hurt, or annoyed by it. Ace resigned himself to whatever Twiggit had in store for him and Kade was shocked, but didn't object.

That's different from what Mel does and the way it's presented.

[Varanus]

That's different from what Mel does and the way it's presented.

You mean with goofy reaction faces in clearly comedic scenes? Even Cerise never expressed things like Mel changing her hair as a reason for coming to hate her. It's all fixed and forgotten about by the next scene.

Yes, not all instances need be the same, but I am just not seeing serious connotations in most of the scenes that were linked.

[Gotoh]

You mean with goofy reaction faces in clearly comedic scenes?

If someone yanked you by your hair, would you think that was funny? 'cuz Jacqui didn't think so. Neither did Ava all those times Mel yanked her by her necktie. Eact time, she was clearly annoyed by it.

Even Cerise never expressed things like Mel changing her hair as a reason for coming to hate her.

And I never said she did. I also plainly stated that Mel's behavior didn't justify Cerise's attempt to kill her and the others.

I am just not seeing serious connotations in most of the scenes that were linked.

Abraxas said Mel wasn't abusive, I disagreed and linked examples of Mel jerking her friends around, by their hair and their collars. To you, as a reader, that might not seem like that big a deal. But, to them, it was no laughing matter; which is the point you seen to be missing. Especially when Mel made note of how she'd been treating them, herself.