Magick Chicks 08-07-14 I thought you were a screamer

[Artemisia]

Becka

Some Greeks followed the triad rules regarding deities, but others did not. Which deity was associated with whom was also kind of up to the local city-state. Most of what we have are the Athenian versions of the myths because the Victorians not only tended to approve of Athens, but they were more easily sanitized. After all, poor Ganymede found the love affair of his life kind of got cut out by the Victorians. That'll teach him to sleep with Zeus.

As a fun aside, Artemis' symbols are the labrys- a two headed axe, and a bear. The labrys is routinely associated these days with lesbianism. The name Artemis is potentially related to the root 'art' which folds into the Greek and Celtic words for bear.

[Gotoh]

Thing is though, the more Cerise is confronted, the less powerful she looks.

That fits what we've been told about her character - that her accomplishments have been 1/3 actual ability, while the other 2/3 were luck and spin control. But she doesn't need to be über powerful to be considered a threat.

She's basically only done two things of any size - the big teleport, and hijacking Faith's "Everything Is Awesome, Especially Me (Oh, And You Like Girls)" field - even her amnesia spell broke the second Tiffany reminded them of Cerise. And of those, the former required a LOT of prep, including help from Skye, and the latter is brittle - Sandi proclaiming that Faith had appointed Mel president in her stead had them wavering in confusion, Mel's now demonstrated a full reversal on one student, and there were a significant number of holdouts to start.

I'm not disagreeing with any of what you said here, 'cuz these are all good points. But it glosses over that fact that Cerise has never been much of a planner, especially long-term. We've been told this, and seen it for ourselves.

Even so, she still nearly succeeded in getting rid of the 9 most powerful students at the school, without a fight. She only got 6 of 'em, but that was due to outside interference from 'fade-out' girl and Faith using her power to eject Mel and Sandi outside of the circle. Tandy was just fortunate enough that she happened to be in a position that made her escape possible. Otherwise, the circle would've been gotten her too.

If I had to guess about why her hold over the school seems fragile, I'd say it's probably because: 1.) she isn't as powerful as Faith, and 2.) she doesn't command the type of adoration Faith does.

Cerise assumed Faith jacked into the school and made the students love her, so she figured if she did it too, it'd be the same for her. Except she was wrong. Faith was already respected and admired by the student body to begin with. More importantly, she made them feel safe, which is why they looked up to her. Cerise failed to see that and assumed having the school's power would be enough to put her on equal footing.

IOW, if Mel stands and fights with more than Friendship Blasts (she's already shattered her strangling "arm" and blasted her away) it doesn't currently look like she'd have THAT much trouble. As an opponent, Cerise's credibility is ebbing away by the strip.

How can she use more than friendship blasts if she still doesn't fully understand how the wand works? From what we've seen, she hasn't mastered it yet. All she knows how to do with it (besides point and shoot) is change it into different objects. That doesn't give her a whole lot to work with.

Dakota could probably teach her, but Hecate has her imprisoned. The only other person would be 'fade-out' girl, if she decides to show up again.

[Tako]

Some versions of the myth claimed that Selene, Artemis and Hekate were three aspects of the same deity: "Selene in the Sky, Artemis on Earth, Hekate in Hell".

[Artemisia]

One that I saw had Artemis, Persephone, and Hekate as the same Goddess. It all depends on the era, the city, and the translation. Heck, there's evidence linking Athene with Brigid despite being from different cultures. Apparently something about an owl. Then there's Apollo and Odin's love for ravens.

[Zippy]

Perhaps Hecate and Artemis are the dark and light forms of the same deity. The colour flip on the uniform might indicate this, especially since the wand fixed the girl's uniform as well as her mind in the last strip.

Well, what colour are the "normal" uniforms? I always thought they were red, but if the EC/MC v3 cover is any indication, they're brownshirts...

Thing is though, the more Cerise is confronted, the less powerful she looks.

That fits what we've been told about her character - that her accomplishments have been 1/3 actual ability, while the other 2/3 were luck and spin control. But she doesn't need to be über powerful to be considered a threat.

She kind of does though - if Mel is more talented than her (and it certainly looks like she is at this point), she needs *much* more power just to have a level match. And there's a reason bad guys tend to be the more powerful - a good guy kerbstomping the bad guy isn't much of a story.

IOW, if Mel stands and fights with more than Friendship Blasts (she's already shattered her strangling "arm" and blasted her away) it doesn't currently look like she'd have THAT much trouble. As an opponent, Cerise's credibility is ebbing away by the strip.

How can she use more than friendship blasts if she still doesn't fully understand how the wand works? From what we've seen, she hasn't mastered it yet. All she knows how to do with it (besides point and shoot) is change it into different objects. That doesn't give her a whole lot to work with.

It's like Cerise herself said - it boosts her power levels for "normal" spells. She's also used it to play tennis with Cerisedorf in the "Two Words" chapter, pinned Ana & Dakota to the wall, contain Cerise and rocket her away and so forth, as well as using at least some of its inherent anti-dark magic effects (reversing Hekate's hold on the masseuses, "wait that worked?" and of course the infamous rainbow Friendship Blast she hit Ash & Dio with) on instinct.

No, she hasn't mastered the thing yet. But unless Hekate boosts Cerise further (without any 'splodeyness), or just plain takes her over to do Teh Job herself, as presented right now she wouldn't need to.

[Gotoh]

She kind of does though - if Mel is more talented than her (and it certainly looks like she is at this point)

Mel has always been more powerful than her, and I had a feeling taking the dark essence hadn't done much to change that; considering Cerise had to jettison enough of it to save herself, whereas Mel would have been able to handle it.

Yet, there's no denying that Cerise has managed to become the C-verse's biggest antagonist, to date. About the only way anyone could top her (short of Hecate doing it herself) would be if Tia went from mischief making to flat-out evil, or if Tiffany's worst fear came true.

she needs *much* more power just to have a level match. And there's a reason bad guys tend to be the more powerful - a good guy kerbstomping the bad guy isn't much of a story.

Not always.

Case in point: Katsuhiko Jinnai was a 10lbs weakling, who couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Yet, the boy was a 400lbs. mental giant, who marshalled the Buggrom army into a force that damn near conquered all of 'El Hazard'. It didn't matter that the 3 priestesses of Mt. Moldune and Ifurita could each beat the stuffing out of him, he was still acknowledged as the greatest threat their world had ever seen.

Cerise is no Jinnai, but you get my point.

It's like Cerise herself said - it boosts her power levels for "normal" spells. She's also used it to play tennis with Cerisedorf in the "Two Words" chapter, pinned Ana & Dakota to the wall, contain Cerise and rocket her away and so forth, as well as using at least some of its inherent anti-dark magic effects (reversing Hekate's hold on the masseuses, "wait that worked?" and of course the infamous rainbow Friendship Blast she hit Ash & Dio with) on instinct.

Yeah, but most of that was reactionary. Melissa didn't consciously will Anastasia and Dakota up against the wall, for example. All she wanted was for them to stop fighting and the wand responded to that. The same as when she asked where she was supposed to get a sword from, and the wand changed into one without Mel actually intending that to happen.

[Zippy]

Yet, there's no denying that Cerise has managed to become the C-verse's biggest antagonist, to date.

There's not much competition there, though - she is literally the only character who has genuinely attempted to kill protagonists and not had it played strictly for comedy, after all.

she needs *much* more power just to have a level match. And there's a reason bad guys tend to be the more powerful - a good guy kerbstomping the bad guy isn't much of a story.

Not always.

Case in point: Katsuhiko Jinnai was a 10lbs weakling, who couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Yet, the boy was a 400lbs. mental giant, who marshalled the Buggrom army into a force that damn near conquered all of 'El Hazard'. It didn't matter that the 3 priestesses of Mt. Moldune and Ifurita could each beat the stuffing out of him, he was still acknowledged as the greatest threat their world had ever seen.

Cerise is no Jinnai, but you get my point.

"Power" isn't limited to physical (or even mystical!) power - I was including the likes of "has an army and knows how to use it". Cerise technically has an army, but not only is she neither strategist nor tactitican, but as part of the general undermining of her since the action switched to "Hekate Academy" we've been shown that even her control is far weaker than we were initially led to believe (as I already mentioned).

Basically, Chapter 15-17 & 18 until #322 were all about building up Dark Cerise as an antagonist. Not a perfect one - she certainly had weak spots, like her obsession with Mel and failing to notice the Skye substitution. But the last ten strips (since the Hekate interlude) Cerise has been rolling one natural 1 after another, with not a single point to her name (even Tandy turns out to be neither seriously injured not turned!) and we're being encouraged to see her as simply pathetic, with her biggest threat to Mel being *how* she loses rather than *whether* Mel can even overcome her with her high (low?) on dark magick.

Yeah, but most of that was reactionary. Melissa didn't consciously will Anastasia and Dakota up against the wall, for example. All she wanted was for them to stop fighting and the wand responded to that. The same as when she asked where she was supposed to get a sword from, and the wand changed into one without Mel actually intending that to happen.

All true. But even if that was the Spirit of the Wand/Fade-Out Girl doing most of the work, it still counts in Melissa's + column. It hardly matters HOW she does it as long as she can do it.

['J']

It's quite possible that Cersie isn't operating at full capacity right now, as the result of Skye being held captive. If Skye manages to get free then it's probable that Cersie will tap that battery and gain additional power. And that's not even factoring in the fact that Hekate's now getting personally involved.


Think of Cersie like a videogame boss; the fight starts out easy, then after you kick it's ass for a while, it turns red and the real fight starts.

[Sk'thloq]

Hey, I didn't notice Dakota floating in a bubble in the second panel at first. I guess Hecate didn't have her drowned after all.

[CFT]

Think of Cerise like a videogame boss; the fight starts out easy, then after you kick it's ass for a while, it turns red and the real fight starts.

So, she will dye her hair back to to red before this arc is over?

[vampire hunter D]

Anyone else still angry at how opaque that water is?

[Schmorgluck]

It's quite possible that Cersie isn't operating at full capacity right now, as the result of Skye being held captive. If Skye manages to get free then it's probable that Cersie will tap that battery and gain additional power. And that's not even factoring in the fact that Hekate's now getting personally involved.


Think of Cersie like a videogame boss; the fight starts out easy, then after you kick it's ass for a while, it turns red and the real fight starts.

Who the hell is Cersie?

[Bambikles]

Who the hell is Cersie?

That's it ! Cerise is EC's verse Cersei Lannister ! It explains so much !

Some versions of the myth claimed that Selene, Artemis and Hekate were three aspects of the same deity: "Selene in the Sky, Artemis on Earth, Hekate in Hell".

One that I saw had Artemis, Persephone, and Hekate as the same Goddess. It all depends on the era, the city, and the translation. Heck, there's evidence linking Athene with Brigid despite being from different cultures. Apparently something about an owl. Then there's Apollo and Odin's love for ravens.

But of course. These cultures come from an Indo-European melting pot and thus are related in their myths. Hekate/Selene/Artemis is an example of Indo-European-Triad, like Jupiter/Juno/Minerva (or Zeus/Hera/Athena).

Both statements are true. Artemis/Selene/Hekate are both goddesses of the Moon and of feminity. Artemis is the moon in crescent and protects virgins/girls before they become nubile (hence the harsh punishment inflicted upon Acteon seeing Artemis bathing, he infringed a taboo). Selene is the full moon while Persephone's story is obviously a metaphor of ther girl leaving her home to live with her husband. Maybe those divinities were one and the same before, given Hekate, like Artemis, still combines the too aspects. And Selene's story feels very literary. Hekate is the new moon/sky without moon, and goddess of old-age, she's the crone. She's been naturally associated with darkness, mystery and logically, witchcraft/wizardry. The old trope Dark is Evil made the rest.

Brigid is a warrior virgin if I recall correctly ? Athena's emblem in an owl.

As for Appollo and Odin, raven were symbols of wisdom in Indo-europeans myths. Tolkien knew it and used it in The Hobbit. As did JK Rowling with Ravenclaw. (Rowling never gets enough credit for how carefully she engineered the symbolic of her books. Maybe because it's a bit too easy to unravel).

[Azrael]

Who the hell is Cersie?

That's it ! Cerise is EC's verse Cersei Lannister ! It explains so much !

She's porking her own brother? EEEEEW.

[Artemisia]

One that I saw had Artemis, Persephone, and Hekate as the same Goddess. It all depends on the era, the city, and the translation. Heck, there's evidence linking Athene with Brigid despite being from different cultures. Apparently something about an owl. Then there's Apollo and Odin's love for ravens.

But of course. These cultures come from an Indo-European melting pot and thus are related in their myths. Hekate/Selene/Artemis is an example of Indo-European-Triad, like Jupiter/Juno/Minerva (or Zeus/Hera/Athena).

Both statements are true. Artemis/Selene/Hekate are both goddesses of the Moon and of feminity. Artemis is the moon in crescent and protects virgins/girls before they become nubile (hence the harsh punishment inflicted upon Acteon seeing Artemis bathing, he infringed a taboo). Selene is the full moon while Persephone's story is obviously a metaphor of ther girl leaving her home to live with her husband. Maybe those divinities were one and the same before, given Hekate, like Artemis, still combines the too aspects. And Selene's story feels very literary. Hekate is the new moon/sky without moon, and goddess of old-age, she's the crone. She's been naturally associated with darkness, mystery and logically, witchcraft/wizardry. The old trope Dark is Evil made the rest.

Brigid is a warrior virgin if I recall correctly ? Athena's emblem in an owl.

As for Appollo and Odin, raven were symbols of wisdom in Indo-europeans myths. Tolkien knew it and used it in The Hobbit. As did JK Rowling with Ravenclaw. (Rowling never gets enough credit for how carefully she engineered the symbolic of her books. Maybe because it's a bit too easy to unravel).

Both Brigid and Athene had the owl as a symbol, though Brigid also seems to have favored the vixen. Artemis started out as the goddess of the green growing wilds. All three were known to have taken female lovers; though, Artemis did fall in love with one man- Orion. Apollo put the kibosh on that by tricking Artemis into killing Orion because Artemis had pledged to never marry a man. Athene's lover, Pallas, was killed by her own hand. The two were sparring and Zeus tricked Athene into slaying Pallas though he was supposedly trying to protect her from harm. According to the Irish legends, men were not allowed near Brigid's sacred fires or a horrible punishment was visited upon them. While both Athene and Brigid were warriors, war was not their domain. Brigid was the goddess of inspiration and fire while Athene favored wisdom and crafters.

The stories all tend to depend upon where/when one is looking.