Dangerously Chloe 07-07-14 Chapter 8-Chloe Kills Teddy

[Gotoh]

She also didn't bring it up with Layla when she thought Layla was a lesbian. Pretty sure it's not quite yet possible there, barring magic, which would work for interspecies stuff too.

That's taking two different situations and trying to say they're the same. It's biologically impossible for a woman to conceive without insemination. The only exception to that has been Mel, due to extenuating circumstances, and even her parents aren't entirely sure about that, since either or both of them might already have been pregnant at the time they fused together.

But with the other pairings, there's a male and a female. Look at Jacqui and Paul, or Jacqui and Mr. Delatorre. Unless they're using protection, or she's using some sort of spell to keep it from happening, chances are, either of them could impregnate her.

[Varanus]

*In the sense of "unaging", yes (they're probably not completely invulnerable - Chloe certainly seemed on the edge when Lucretta was crushing her via voodoo doll) - both Adora back in EC's Dark Chloe arc (EC #291) and Chloe in #40 of this strip have said that succubi are "ageless after puberty" (Chloe even said she's lost track of her chronological age since her time in Hell - she thinks she's about Teddy's age, but she's not entirely sure, and the fact that more time apparently passed there than on Earth can't help) and can appear whatever age they "need to be" (most recently, Chloe deaging to something like 11 or 12 to appear non-threatening to Naomi...and just breaking her brain that bit more!).

Indeed we've long known succubi can externally appear whatever age they want (at least as long as they are still very attractive), but I was more talking about whether their lives have any defined limits.

For comparison there are settings where elves are effectively immortal unless killed, and others where they simply live for a long time and still look fairly young when they do pass away. Its kind of like their life force giving out instead of their body.

That succubi seem to breed a fair amount (given there is at least one school full of teenage ones) it would seem like there is some turnover in the population (unless there is just an ever-increasing number of job openings or retired succubi. In settings where elves, vampires etc. are immortal unless killed the producing of children (if it even occurs in a conventional way) is often depicted as a rare or special event. We have yet to see this with any of the races based in the EC verse.

@mikbuster: I'd have to disagree, since I'm pretty sure Maria would've brought that up, when she was trying to convince Layla that her relationship with Kade couldn't work. Just as I'm sure Brooke's mother would've said something about her daughter going out with Ace. At some point, someone would be sitting down with their kids to explain why such relationships would ultimately be futile.

But, given that no one's said anything to that effect, and with all the interspecies relationships we've seen, I'm pretty sure it's possible for at least some of them.

One thing some settings do to avoid the complications of hybrids while still allowing for children is to have it so that the race can breed with another but the child will simply be a pure version of either the mother's race or the father's. This is especially common with fantasy races that consist purely of males or purely of females and thus require other races to breed (given melusine is innately female in mythology they may be an example).

And oddly enough it does even have a real world basis (albeit not quite the same as the offspring are clones). I forget what it is but there is at least one all-female animal that uses the sperm of a male of a related species to stimulate its egg's development while not actually using the sperm directly to produce a hybrid.

[mikbuster]

She also didn't bring it up with Layla when she thought Layla was a lesbian. Pretty sure it's not quite yet possible there, barring magic, which would work for interspecies stuff too.

That's taking two different situations and trying to say they're the same. It's biologically impossible for a woman to conceive without insemination. The only exception to that has been Mel, due to extenuating circumstances, and even her parents aren't entirely sure about that, since either or both of them might already have been pregnant at the time they fused together.

But with the other pairings, there's a male and a female. Look at Jacqui and Paul, or Jacqui and Mr. Delatorre. Unless they're using protection, or she's using some sort of spell to keep it from happening, chances are, either of them could impregnate her.

It's also biologically impossible for different species to mate and conceive also, except for really closely related species whose hybrid offspring are sterile. Presumably Layla already knows either way at her age, with her family, whether she can have little vamps with her chosen beau, and that would be the reason it wasn't mentioned by her mother either way. It's also pretty silly to equate romance and child producing ability considering how many people there are that aren't interested in sex at all, or that don't ever want children and are still after romantic partners. Granted not everyone is after romance, but there are a lot with a lot of variation in desires for children and sex.

[Zippy]

Exactly. (Although in the case of vampires specifically, I suppose it depends in part on whether they've always been demons, or whether there are turned humans who become fertile vampires - could Eugene or Maria once have been human?)

That succubi seem to breed a fair amount (given there is at least one school full of teenage ones) it would seem like there is some turnover in the population (unless there is just an ever-increasing number of job openings or retired succubi.

World human population 1950-2011:


I suspect that there may be a few more jobs out there for succubi!

[Varanus]

It's also biologically impossible for different species to mate and conceive also, except for really closely related species whose hybrid offspring are sterile.

The concept of "species" is not as clear cut as we are often taught. There are many cases of hybrid offspring being fertile and even of species that seem not especially closely related having fertile offspring (the most famous one I can think of is a bottlenose dolphin and false killer whale who had a fertile hybrid calf in captivity despite the massive differences in size and appearance between the two species). It is sometimes behavior or habitat that prevents hybrids more than genes.

It's also pretty silly to equate romance and child producing ability considering how many people there are that aren't interested in sex at all, or that don't ever want children and are still after romantic partners. Granted not everyone is after romance, but there are a lot with a lot of variation in desires for children and sex.

This certainly seems a likely option, especially by races for whom producing children is not a priority in general.

[Zippy]

It's also biologically impossible for different species to mate and conceive also, except for really closely related species whose hybrid offspring are sterile.

The concept of "species" is not as clear cut as we are often taught. There are many cases of hybrid offspring being fertile and even of species that seem not especially closely related having fertile offspring (the most famous one I can think of is a bottlenose dolphin and false killer whale who had a fertile hybrid calf in captivity despite the massive differences in size and appearance between the two species). It is sometimes behavior or habitat that prevents hybrids more than genes.

Well, the strict definition of "species" is "organisms which can interbreed and produce fertile offspring". For instance, domestic breeds of dog from great danes to collies to chihuahuas are all the same species (Canis lupus familiaris) despite their wide variations. If they can interbreed freely, then they're subspecies, not species.

[There is one sort of exception, but that almost exclusively relates to plants - polyploid animals tend to be sickly and die young, with a few exceptions.]

[Gotoh]

It's also biologically impossible for different species to mate and conceive also, except for really closely related species whose hybrid offspring are sterile.

Except we're talking about a fictional setting, where such relationships have been consumated.

It's also pretty silly to equate romance and child producing ability considering how many people there are that aren't interested in sex at all, or that don't ever want children and are still after romantic partners.

And it's equally silly to assume that I meant all relationships ultimately end in sex, since many couples break up before their relationships even have the chance to progress to that point.

However, we've seen the characters I mentioned making out, while others (Jacqui/Paul, Faith/Ash/other girls) are in fact, sexually active. We were even told by TCampbell that Melissa was hoping her plan to break up Layla and Kade would end in sex and we've had one character mention the possibility (in passing). So the interest is definitely there, so is the possibility of it happening.

That's all I was saying.

[mikbuster]

Gotoh, you could have sex with a horse if you wanted to (the horse can't consent, but it's physically possible). The possibility for sex is there for a ton of combinations even if they can't produce offspring. You said "... would seem pretty pointless if they couldn't go all the way with it." To me that would seem to mean either sex or having children. Since they're mostly human-like their ability to have sex is pretty much assured. That only left me with the idea that you were talking about children. Your sentence would seem to say, then, that romance was pretty pointless if it couldn't end with children, which seems to run counter to the desires of a tens of millions of humans. Other meanings like marriage don't rely on a biological compatibility at all and would certainly be possible.

[Varanus]

Well, the strict definition of "species" is "organisms which can interbreed and produce fertile offspring". For instance, domestic breeds of dog from great danes to collies to chihuahuas are all the same species (Canis lupus familiaris) despite their wide variations. If they can interbreed freely, then they're subspecies, not species.

Dogs and other domestic animals are special examples because humans directed their appearance, sometimes into forms that would be unable to survive in the wild.

In any event, you'd be hard pressed to argue false killer whales and bottlenose dolphins are subspecies of each other. Basically nature is often not willing to fully abide by the rules of classification that humans come up with, our system is far from perfect after all.

[Gotoh]

One thing some settings do to avoid the complications of hybrids while still allowing for children is to have it so that the race can breed with another but the child will simply be a pure version of either the mother's race or the father's. This is especially common with fantasy races that consist purely of males or purely of females and thus require other races to breed (given melusine is innately female in mythology they may be an example).

I've seen stories like that too, especially in anime and video games. It's pretty common.

Two opposing examples that come to mind are 'Armitage III' and 'Outlaw Star'. In both stories, mating between species was a plot element. In the former's case, the thirds were a breed of gynoids so technologically advanced, that they were capable of bearing children. In fact, by the end of the series, Armitage was pregnant with Ross' child.

Whereas in 'Outlaw Star', Harry McDugal was a cyborg (though the series classified him as "mostly human") wanted to be with Melfina, who was a bio android. When Melfina's creator realized this, he immediately pulled Harry aside to let him know it could never happen. Khan flat-out told him it would be impossible for him to mate with her*. Granted, Harry said he didn't care, but Khan was quick point that out to him.

My point being, if the same were true for interspecies pairings in EC/MC/DC, that someone would have said so by now, rather than let things continue as they have.



*note: (mild spoiler) It would have been impossible for Harry at that time, the same was true for Gene. But, after the events at the Galactic Leyline, it became possible for Gene to consumate his relationship with Melfina.

You said "... would seem pretty pointless if they couldn't go all the way with it." To me that would seem to mean either sex or having children.

I meant "pretty pointless" as in: it'd pointless for the parents to know it could never happen and not say anything (like in the 'Outlaw Star' example that I mentioned). I wasn't saying relationships without sex, or children, was pointless.

When Khan realized what Harry was looking for with Melfina, he made it point to tell him it could never happen (as far as he knew). Melfina told Harry the same thing ("I'm sorry, I can't be what you want me to be"), because not saying anything would've been setting Harry up for disappointment later.

For Maria, or Brooke's mother, to not explain that to their kids would amount to the same thing. That's why I said it'd be pointless. But, since we haven't seen that happen and at least one person has brought it up, logic dictates that, to some extent, it must be possible.

Double post merged. The DAMNed

[BeckaSutton]

It's also biologically impossible for different species to mate and conceive also, except for really closely related species whose hybrid offspring are sterile.

The concept of "species" is not as clear cut as we are often taught. There are many cases of hybrid offspring being fertile and even of species that seem not especially closely related having fertile offspring (the most famous one I can think of is a bottlenose dolphin and false killer whale who had a fertile hybrid calf in captivity despite the massive differences in size and appearance between the two species). It is sometimes behavior or habitat that prevents hybrids more than genes.

Well, the strict definition of "species" is "organisms which can interbreed and produce fertile offspring". For instance, domestic breeds of dog from great danes to collies to chihuahuas are all the same species (Canis lupus familiaris) despite their wide variations. If they can interbreed freely, then they're subspecies, not species.

[There is one sort of exception, but that almost exclusively relates to plants - polyploid animals tend to be sickly and die young, with a few exceptions.]

I note that Coyote (Canis latrans) is cofertile with Canis Lupus. I think several other members of genus Canis are co-fertile as well.

Ligers and Tigons can also bear offspring and I really don't think Lions and Tigers are the same species by any stretch. Indeed a glance at the Panthera hybrids page indicates all four extant Panthera species can produce fertile hybrids with some of the others.

And then there are ring species - they really confuse the issue.

So I tend to agree with Varanus - it's more complicated than the strict definition.

However as relates to the comic even if we take the strict definition we're talking about species that can, for the most part, look human. It's entirely possible that they are subspecies and can interbreed. This Magick Chicks comic even says all cryptids share the same cursed blood. http://www.magickchicks.com/?module=art ... tatus[1]=3

Which I guess amounts to "who knows".

Becka

[Zippy]

However as relates to the comic even if we take the strict definition we're talking about species that can, for the most part, look human. It's entirely possible that they are subspecies and can interbreed. This Magick Chicks comic even says all cryptids share the same cursed blood. http://www.magickchicks.com/?module=art ... tatus[1]=3

Which I guess amounts to "who knows".

Quite.

[Note that link doesn't work - the dropdown doesn't give you a working link. To get the actual link to a comic, you either have to land one strip off and use the previous/next links to get the link you want, or use the archive links (not always kept up to date - the Chloe archive is currently 65 strips behind!) instead of the dropdown. I think the strip you meant was this one: http://www.magickchicks.com/strips-mc/s ... r_cryptids ]

[BeckaSutton]

Oops! Thanks, I didn't know that.

['J']

For Maria, or Brooke's mother, to not explain that to their kids would amount to the same thing. That's why I said it'd be pointless. But, since we haven't seen that happen and at least one person has brought it up, logic dictates that, to some extent, it must be possible.

Hmm, a highschool romantic relationship with absolutely ZERO possibility of their teenage daughters getting pregnant. Yeah what parent wouldn't want to put the kaibosh on that as fast as possible.



Honestly, I think that if interspecies pregnancy was a significant thing, we'd be seeing a lot more hybrid students walking around.

[Gotoh]

Hmm, a highschool romantic relationship with absolutely ZERO possibility of their teenage daughters getting pregnant. Yeah what parent wouldn't want to put the kaibosh on that as fast as possible.

Even though they're knockin' boots? Or trying to? Especially when one of 'em's already mentioned the possibility of it happening? The only way there'd be "zero chance" is if they either abstain, or have same sex relationships.

The only difference between the C-verse teens and humans is, half of 'em are cryptids.