Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

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Fluffy
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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by Fluffy »

CFT wrote:
Fluffy wrote:The guy is violating the Girl Code. Doesn't matter if he's aware that he's doing it or not. For alot of girls, the Girl Code is sacred and they expect guys to know that it exists - and to respect it.
Again, allow me to point out that -assuming the validity of this "Girl Code"*- Brooke was the first one to brake it by agreeing to Ace's advances and becoming his girlfriend in the first place. And using the excuse that Brooke didn't know Nina's feelings towards Ace isn't working very much either, given that Brooke and Ace were very clearly trying to keep their relationship secret from Nina and were not much surprised when she broke into tears after seeing them together. They either knew or heavily suspected Nina's feelings.
*in my opinion, Brooke did good becoming Ace's girlfriend, and does bad here (though, as I said I can understand her feelings, but they are still the wrong reaction). So, obviously I'm not a big fan of girls following such "codes". ;)
But, was there any evidence showing that Nina was crushing on Ace before Ace made his move on Brook? From what I can immediately remember - there was no indication that Nina was interested in Ace at that point in time (a pet name doesn't count as interest. And any evidence that she may have been crushing on Ace only happened after she gave up on her obsession with Kade - and by then, Ace and Brooke were dating).

So, Brooke would not be in violation of the girl code at that point - seeing as a girl is not going to dump her boyfriend just because her BFF suddenly wants to declare him for herself.
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TBeholder
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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by TBeholder »

Fluffy wrote:
How many people do you think wouldn't cave to that kind of pressure at that age?
Plenty! Because some people can be (and are) assholes - even at that age.
So... what upsets you is that he isn't an asshole?
Fluffy wrote:
Ace got corraled, plain 'n simple. If he hadn't consented to that kiss, and if he hadn't asked Nina out, her feelings would have been hurt and he would looked like a douche for doing it (regardless of his good intentions) and you know it.
It's called a cliche. And that's what the writers chose to go with. But, just because it's a common occurrence in teen dramas doesn't mean that all teenagers all over the world follow that cliche when placed in that situation.
They also did the cliche where the most plants have leaves instead of, e.g. clown cars growing on them. I'm okay with that. Too.
Fluffy wrote:But, was there any evidence showing that Nina was crushing on Ace before Ace made his move on Brook?
Bwahahahahahahahaha. =)) Depends on whether Brooke is more oblivious than Layla, really. Because "thecrazylittlegirl" wasn't subtlety incarnate.
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Fluffy
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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by Fluffy »

No, I'm annoyed that it's implied that teenagers are incapable of not caving when placed in similar situations. Hard as it is to believe, not all teens fall under peer pressure.

As for the link - that's hardly evidence of Nina crushing on Ace. She viewed (and treated) him like a puppy after she saw him running in his wolf form - and only referred to him as her friend. In all honesty, based on what we've seen in the strips, aside from dirty looks being thrown behind people's backs on maybe two occasions (and only after Ace regained his male form and made his move on Brooke), did we see any indication that Nina may have viewed Ace as anything more than just a friend.
Last edited by Fluffy on Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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CFT
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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by CFT »

We are only shown a few minutes of their -fictional- lives per day (because more would be impossible in a comic book format - and probably boring as well). But, in-universe, the characters spend at least all mornings in school together (and usually hang out in their free time as well). This naturally means that they (should) know things about each other that we the audience don't. So:
- Can I "prove" with evidence that Nina had a publically known crush for Ace? Nope, I can't, as you point out.
- However, are there enough clues that people knew (or heavily suspected) about it? I think there are. Those include Ace and Brooke trying to keep their relationship secret from her, Tia figuring it out very quickly and finally that nobody is being surprised when that "crush" is confirmed. And if everybody else knows or suspects it, I find it illogical that Brooke, a very smart person that is even closer to Nina than most, doesn't.
Now, let me repeat that I find no wrong in what Brooke (and Ace) did back then (except maybe the keeping it secret from Nina part). But I fully believe that she is less justified gettin upset about her ex dating her friend than Nina should be about her friend dating her crush.
*Note: But maybe it can all be attributed instead to something else that people pointed out: that all the main cast, somewhat justifiably, consider Nina as "the Kid". So, they kept it secret from her because "she is just a kid". And now, Brooke is only upset because "Nina is too naive to go on dates, so Ace must be taking advantage of her". I can see that too, but that makes her behavior condescending to Nina, which is a whole other can of worms.
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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by Gotoh »

Fluffy wrote:
Gotoh wrote:Now you're being unreasonable.
I'm stating my opinion. It's unreasonable to have an opinion?
That wasn't what I meant by "unreasonable".

You basically said Ace shoulda stomped on Nina's feelings, which you know he isn't gonna do 'cuz he's too nice a guy. The one time he lost his patience with her, he wound up feeling bad about it and that was before Layla got in his face and practically bit his head off.
Fluffy wrote:
Gotoh wrote:How many people do you think wouldn't cave to that kind of pressure at that age?
Plenty! Because some people can be (and are) assholes - even at that age.
True, but Ace isn't one of them.
Fluffy wrote:And really, if Ace chose to stand his ground and refused to kiss/take Nina out on a date, it wouldn't have been the first time that Ace would have come off as looking like a douche - and *you* know it.
Sure, he could've said no, but like most, he also cares about his self image. It isn't simply a matter of looking bad, it's the guilt that would've come with it. No self-respecting guy could make a little girl cry in good conscience; especially not on their birthday.
Fluffy wrote:]It was unfair to him; but he could have said no - and didn't, due to cowardess (i.e. - plot convenience).

But there are times where people need to stand up for themselves and not cater to the whims of children who don't understand the situation - regardless of how it makes them look in the end. Yes, he would have looked like a jerk if he stood his ground; but Neige and Sorbet - no matter what the decision would have been - would still look like meddling brats.
Neige and Sorbet wanted to see a kiss and thought they were helping Nina at the same time. Which is why Ace couldn't have gotten out of it.
Fluffy wrote:
Gotoh wrote:]At heart, he's a nice guy who doesn't want to hurt anybody. It's his best quality, but also his biggest character flaw.
Because being seen as a spineless sap is so much better than looking like a decisive jerk.
Because it's better that he cares about other people's feelings.

I also wouldn't say he's spineless, since he's stood up for himself more than once, before. But that's a different topic.

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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by Gotoh »

CFT wrote:I find it illogical that Brooke, a very smart person that is even closer to Nina than most, doesn't.
Not if all she and Ace kept hearing was how much Nina liked Kade. Especially when she went so far as to hijack her sister's body so she could go out with him.

Ace and Brooke are both smart, but they're not mind readers. If all they saw was how much she was crushng on Kade and it was all she ever talked about, how were they supposed to know Nina secretly liked Ace? If that was the case, she should've said so and spent her time trying to get Ace to notice her instead of trying to get with her sister's boyfriend.
CFT wrote:Now, let me repeat that I find no wrong in what Brooke (and Ace) did back then (except maybe the keeping it secret from Nina part).
I gotta disagree with this part too, because what anyone does in their private lives is their business. Not anyone else's. If Ace and Brooke didn't want Nina to know they were seeing each other, they had that right. Nina is not entitled to know who either of them are going out with, unless they choose to tell her.

They kept their relationship to themselves, but as far they knew, Nina liked that other guy. So Nina had no room for argument.

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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by CFT »

Of course their private lives is their business. But keeping (any) secrets from a good (supposedly "best" even) friend is almost always wrong as well (not to mention that in this particular case that secret was a guaranteed recipe for disaster since Nina didn't know that Ace was "off the market", so to speak).

I don't know, maybe it's my personal take on these things, but I find keeping so big secrets* from a friend is a greater "offense" than not following the "Girl Code" (as described by Fluffy. Obviously, you don't go after your friend "current" amore, but an ex should be pretty much fair game).

*and yes, while it is a private thing, being in a relationship is also something important enough to share with friends. If you're not comfortable telling that to them, I would personally question the validity (or better, the "depth") of that friendship.
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Gotoh
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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by Gotoh »

CFT wrote:Of course their private lives is their business. But keeping (any) secrets from a good (supposedly "best" even) friend is almost always wrong as well (not to mention that in this particular case that secret was a guaranteed recipe for disaster since Nina didn't know that Ace was "off the market", so to speak).
That's like saying there were obligated to tell her they were dating. I just can't agree to that, 'cuz it's also like saying they waive their right to their privacy just because they happen to be friends with someone. I doubt anyone tells their friends about every single thing they're doing, or who they're seeing.

And Ace was never "on the market" where Nina was concerned, even when he was single. Because , at that time, he barely wanted anything to do with her. So Brooke wasn't guilty violating any codes. As far as she knew, Nina liked Kade, Ace was single and asked her out, which meant he was fair game.
CFT wrote:*and yes, while it is a private thing, being in a relationship is also something important enough to share with friends. If you're not comfortable telling that to them, I would personally question the validity (or better, the "depth") of that friendship.
I wouldn't.

The way I see it, if my friends want me to know who they're seeing and whatnot, they'll tell me when they want me to know. I'm not gonna hold it against if they don't, because I respect their right to their privacy. They're not obligated to tell me and I'm not gonna pry.

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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by FlashD81 »

<reaches bottom of the bag> damn out of popcorn. No worries I'll make some more.
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Re: Eerie Cuties 14-04-14 We need chocolate stat

Post by The Nick »

Fluffy wrote:
Gotoh wrote:Now you're being unreasonable.
I'm stating my opinion. It's unreasonable to have an opinion that doesn't reflect everyone elses?
How many people do you think wouldn't cave to that kind of pressure at that age?
Plenty! Because some people can be (and are) assholes - even at that age.
Ace got corraled, plain 'n simple. If he hadn't consented to that kiss, and if he hadn't asked Nina out, her feelings would have been hurt and he would looked like a douche for doing it (regardless of his good intentions) and you know it.
It's called a cliche. And that's what the writers chose to go with. But, just because it's a common occurrence in teen dramas doesn't mean that all teenagers all over the world follow that cliche when placed in that situation.

And really, if Ace chose to stand his ground and refused to kiss/take Nina out on a date, it wouldn't have been the first time that Ace would have come off as looking like a douche - and *you* know it.
That situation was completely unfair to Ace.
When did I say it was?

It was unfair to him; but he could have said no - and didn't, due to cowardess (i.e. - plot convenience).
You can't honestly mean to tell me you thought Ace could've gotten away with that. Much less, without Neige and Sorbet thinking he was a jerk.
Without looking like a jerk, no. But there are times where people need to stand up for themselves and not cater to the whims of children who don't understand the situation - regardless of how it makes them look in the end. Yes, he would have looked like a jerk if he stood his ground; but Neige and Sorbet - no matter what the decision would have been - would still look like meddling brats.
At heart, he's a nice guy who doesn't want to hurt anybody. It's his best quality, but also his biggest character flaw.
Because being seen as a spineless sap is so much better than looking like a decisive jerk.
Not being strong enough to do something is unenviable, but a morally neutral (albeit unfortunate) reality, whereas intentionally going about inflicting pain and suffering on little girls and their friends on her birthday no less?

Generally, when I try to make little girls cry, I do my best to avoid doing so on their birthday. It's the least I can do.
CFT wrote: *and yes, while it is a private thing, being in a relationship is also something important enough to share with friends. If you're not comfortable telling that to them, I would personally question the validity (or better, the "depth") of that friendship.
I'd also question the relationship. If someone is ashamed (or whatever) to share it, you have to question its validity.
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