Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Discuss EC/MC/DC here!

Moderators: Dave Zero1, Don Alexander, Giz, midgetshrimp, Cassandra

Locked
User avatar
Luzahn
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Luzahn »

Looking at Cerise in that last panel, I have to wonder whether she is at the school.

I'm suspecting that everybody in the woods is going to end up infiltrating brainwashed-zombie-school to take down Cerise. It just seems like something one would do. I mean, the authors did write all of the best fighters into one place...

That might not have been the best plan, Cerise. :p

Gotoh
Posts: 4095
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Gotoh »

the_Bear wrote:Some people just seem to try to see everything Faith does in a worst light possible. She has plenty of her own character faults, no need to invent them. Since Tiffany acknowledged Faith's explanation regarding risk of blood infection, there is no reason for readers to doubt that Artemis hunters are very wary of anything monster related to the point of paranoia. While we don't know for sure if Faith's intervention was beneficial or disruptive to Melissa, from her point of view it was clear that there was something wrong with Mel and it was related to the object inside her, so trying to pull it out was pretty logical course of action, especially since there might be no time to deliberate. And while we discuss Faith saving the day, she declined to use weapons that could hurt possessed students at the risk to her own life, even when Tiffany thought it would be morally permissible, so clearly she is willing to sacrifice herself for others sake. Faith for me seems to want to be a good "guy", a heroine, like she thinks Tiffany kinda is, she just is too blinded by her huge ego, even if she starts to recognize this as a problem, she doesn't seem to know how to start dealing with it. She does seem to have a moral "core" , some kind of code of conduct she never crosses, though it could be a bit stricter, and what's important she doesn't seem to be malicious. Faith could make a great heroine if she had enough character growth to deal with her faults, which she might get quite soon.
This is essentially every point I've argued concerning Faith's character, but you've summed them up better than I did (and in a single post, at that). High five, my man! \M/
the_Bear wrote:Edit: When Faith pulls the wand from Mel, she mentions that she would normally never touch someone's breast without their "delighted consent", which is quite telling. Faith's problem is that due to her ego and need for being loved by all she doesn't take "no for answer to the point of harassment, but it is clear she would never take "no" for "yes". She'll just stalk you until you change your mind.
Also agreed with you here, minus the bolded portion. Faith doesn't stalk anyone. In the event someone turns her down, she's let's them be and figures they'll come around on their own, if she gives 'em enough time.

Passing Through
Posts: 1327
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Passing Through »

TBeholder wrote:
Passing Through wrote:I don't find Cerise's theory regarding Faith to be credible, because teachers. You'd think they'd notice something like that.
One, why you'd think they all are capable of resisting it, much less noticing?
Two, suppose they'd notice - and what of it?
Passing Through wrote: If there is anything to the love magic rumour... as I recall, the school's power was what released the wand from within Melissa.
What "wand within Melissa" and where it got "released"?
Passing Through wrote: Odds on Melissa and Faith having to (gasp!) work together on this one?
What for?
a) They're actually finished with the whole 'learning' thing to the point that they regurgitate what they themselves have learned onto others. As for how they'd know... b) I would rather imagine that they have a strict 'no raping in the classroom' policy. Most schools do.

That would be this wand.

To repel the evil of Cerise and Skye. Why else?

dex drako
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:18 am

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by dex drako »

The Nick wrote:You're acting like she slipped a date-rape drug into her drink or bashed her on the head to the point of concussion to render her incapable of saying no.
new flash mind control is the the ultimate Date rape duge.

read the first text bubble on this page again. Mel had no inhibitions and it is our inhibitions that allow us to say "NO" at that point mel might as well have been drunk off her A$$ or as high as a kite because any the part the part of her that could say "NO" couldn't be used. that means Faith was knowingly taking advantage of Mel while she was in diminished mental capacity state. so yes I am saying Faith "date raped druged" Mel. because by Faith's own words it was next to impossinle for Mel to say "No" becuae those parts of her brain were not invited to the party.

which is very different then someone being stunned as you tryed to put it and a lot closer to the lead up to a rape.

now we're not twisting anything the molesting and rape like moments are there but what would be a creepy/horrible events in real life is just played down as a joke in a comic. the problem is some of us see throught the joke to the unintended consequences the joke would have in real life.
Luzahn wrote:Looking at Cerise in that last panel, I have to wonder whether she is at the school.

I'm suspecting that everybody in the woods is going to end up infiltrating brainwashed-zombie-school to take down Cerise. It just seems like something one would do. I mean, the authors did write all of the best fighters into one place...

That might not have been the best plan, Cerise. :p
think about it Cerise gathered all her greatest threats in one place where they're surrounded by an army of mind controled animals. now that sounds like a great plan to try and get rid of them all at the same time to me.
the_Bear wrote:Some people just seem to try to see everything Faith does in a worst light possible. She has plenty of her own character faults, no need to invent them. Since Tiffany acknowledged Faith's explanation regarding risk of blood infection, there is no reason for readers to doubt that Artemis hunters are very wary of anything monster related to the point of paranoia. While we don't know for sure if Faith's intervention was beneficial or disruptive to Melissa, from her point of view it was clear that there was something wrong with Mel and it was related to the object inside her, so trying to pull it out was pretty logical course of action, especially since there might be no time to deliberate. And while we discuss Faith saving the day, she declined to use weapons that could hurt possessed students at the risk to her own life, even when Tiffany thought it would be morally permissible, so clearly she is willing to sacrifice herself for others sake. Faith for me seems to want to be a good "guy", a heroine, like she thinks Tiffany kinda is, she just is too blinded by her huge ego, even if she starts to recognize this as a problem, she doesn't seem to know how to start dealing with it. She does seem to have a moral "core" , some kind of code of conduct she never crosses, though it could be a bit stricter, and what's important she doesn't seem to be malicious. Faith could make a great heroine if she had enough character growth to deal with her faults, which she might get quite soon.
and it can be said there are some people who just seem to try to see everything Faith does in the best light poissble as well.

I think faith's character can best be described by the old saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. yes Faith wants to be the "good guy" but even the most vile villains are all trying to be the "good guy" the best way they know how so that's not good enough.

was Fiath trying to help Tiff sure but did she need to strip her completely nude and leave her that way, no she did that because she enjoyed it while knowing Tiff would find it creepy.
was faith trying to save Mel from the wand sure but keeping the wand like she did was not out of any kind of vertue.
Faith didn't want to hurt those possessed students but at the same time she has no trouble treating the whole student body as her slaves and sexual plaything with little interest in how they feel about it.
Faith wouldn't touch someone chest without them saying she could but she has no problem of messing with that person mind to get her to say yes.

all in all faith is a horrible character and I hope she learns a lot from this.

Gotoh
Posts: 4095
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Gotoh »

dex drako wrote:
The Nick wrote:You're acting like she slipped a date-rape drug into her drink or bashed her on the head to the point of concussion to render her incapable of saying no.
new flash mind control is the the ultimate Date rape duge.
Except she wasn't controlling Melissa's mind.

Had that been the case, Faith could've fed her a post-hypnotic suggestion and called it a day. Instead, she asked her a couple of questions. That isn't mind control.
dex drako wrote:read the first text bubble on this page again. Mel had no inhibitions and it is our inhibitions that allow us to say "NO" at that point mel might as well have been drunk off her A$$ or as high as a kite because any the part the part of her that could say "NO" couldn't be used. that means Faith was knowingly taking advantage of Mel while she was in diminished mental capacity state. so yes I am saying Faith "date raped druged" Mel. because by Faith's own words it was next to impossinle for Mel to say "No" becuae those parts of her brain were not invited to the party.
Since you've linked to that strip, I want you to take a look a what she said in that panel.

Here's what she said: "Inhibitions don't exist in dreams, Melissa... nothing's forced. We can be honest here."

Here's how you're interpreting it: "I turned your inhibitions off so you can't say "no" to me."

See the difference? If you're still not getting that, picture yourself in a room with an open flame, so I take you to an adjacent room and close the door. Then I say, "while we're in here, you don't have to worry about that fire outside."

Did I turn the fire off? No. All I did was take you to another room where you no longer had that fire to worry about, which is what Faith was explaining to Melissa. As long as they were in that dream, she wouldn't have to worry about things like shame, embarrassment, what other people might think, or any of the things that'd keep her from acting on her innermost feelings. Which is why she told Melissa they could be honest with themselves while they were there.
dex drako wrote:
the_Bear wrote:Some people just seem to try to see everything Faith does in a worst light possible. She has plenty of her own character faults, no need to invent them.
and it can be said there are some people who just seem to try to see everything Faith does in the best light poissble as well.
Or, maybe those people accept she's morally grey, but don't necessarily think she's the evil mind-controlling b*tch, like those who try to villainize, her think she is.
dex drako wrote:I think faith's character can best be described by the old saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. yes Faith wants to be the "good guy" but even the most vile villains are all trying to be the "good guy" the best way they know how so that's not good enough.
Even Tiffany disagrees with you on that one.
dex drako wrote:was Fiath trying to help Tiff sure but did she need to strip her completely nude and leave her that way, no she did that because she enjoyed it while knowing Tiff would find it creepy.
Sounds counterproductive, considering she's trying to win her over. I doubt she had much time for ogling Tiff anyway.
dex drako wrote:was faith trying to save Mel from the wand sure but keeping the wand like she did was not out of any kind of vertue.
Even though the wand was perceived as a possible threat to Melissa and the school, which Tiffany couldn't refute, and later had to wonder about, herself?

I'm not saying Faith wasn't just looking to satisfy her own curiosity about it, but she raised a couple of good points there. And the school's resident champion of justice more or less agreed those concerns weren't entirely unwarranted.
dex drako wrote:Faith didn't want to hurt those possessed students but at the same time she has no trouble treating the whole student body as her slaves and sexual plaything with little interest in how they feel about it.
Show me a single one of those girls boo-hooing afterwards, claiming Faith's used them, or taken advantage of them.
dex drako wrote:Faith wouldn't touch someone chest without them saying she could but she has no problem of messing with that person mind to get her to say yes.
I assume you're referring to Melissa, here. In which case, I'll redirect you to the first part of my response.
dex drako wrote:all in all faith is a horrible character and I hope she learns a lot from this.
All in all, I'd say you've misjudged her horribly. Faith's no saint, but she isn't nearly as bad as you're making her out to be.
Last edited by Gotoh on Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mikbuster
Posts: 2619
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:04 am

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by mikbuster »

Gotoh wrote:Show me a single one of those girls boo-hooing afterwards, claiming Faith's used them, or taken advantage of them.
Now that Cerise has turned off her influence over the girls, maybe they will... Or maybe they will after Cerise is stopped.
You don't need a reason to help people. ~Zidane Tribal
Geez. Why are adults so pigheaded? ~Palom
How do you prove that we exist? Maybe we don't exist... ~Vivi Orunitia
The only dependable thing about the future is uncertainty. ~Amarant Coral
ADD is a double edged sword. Also the handle is a blade.

That one's easy: it's because it sounds disgusting. Society's got nothing to do with that. ~Gotoh

Gotoh
Posts: 4095
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Gotoh »

@mikbuster: Not unless Faith shagged all of 'em on school grounds. If there's any truth to what Cerise is saying (and I remain skeptical, given her track record), that still wouldn't explain all the girls she hooked up with off campus. Or Ash.

User avatar
vampire hunter D
Posts: 4095
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:19 pm
Location: Jasoom

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by vampire hunter D »

You know, noone's askd yet, but what kind of background does Faith have that's made her so needy to be loved she'd use her mind powers (consciously or not) to make people love her? That can't just be narcissism
Pointless arguing is one of the three pillars upon which the Internet is built. The other two are of course cat pictures and porn.

User avatar
Fluffy
Posts: 3603
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Fluffy »

Gotoh wrote:@mikbuster: Not unless Faith shagged all of 'em on school grounds. If there's any truth to what Cerise is saying (and I remain skeptical, given her track record), that still wouldn't explain all the girls she hooked up with off campus. Or Ash.
Who's to say that the girl wasn't from school? :/

I would assume all she would need in order to have that magic 'love me' mojo take effect is to have someone come upon the school grounds and meet her. (this would explain how Ash could be affected by her psychic mojo, too).
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

User avatar
vampire hunter D
Posts: 4095
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:19 pm
Location: Jasoom

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by vampire hunter D »

If that's all it was how are the Hellrune coven not affected? Seems like it would need to be more gradual and require lots of exposure.

Not that it matters, you and dex seem to be talking about a different comic than the one discussed on this forum.
Pointless arguing is one of the three pillars upon which the Internet is built. The other two are of course cat pictures and porn.

Gotoh
Posts: 4095
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Gotoh »

vampire hunter D wrote:You know, noone's askd yet, but what kind of background does Faith have that's made her so needy to be loved she'd use her mind powers (consciously or not) to make people love her? That can't just be narcissism
You just reminded me of a post I made on the "she looks out for us" thread:
Gotoh wrote:I know many may scoff at the idea, but it's entirely possible that Faith's reasons for helping Sandi may have less to do with manipulation and more to do with with helping someone with an unusual gift they couldn't control, because she may have gone through a similar experience, herself.

Think about it: at present, Faith's still learning to control her own power. Imagine what it must've been like, for her, when she was Sandi's age (at the time of the flashback). Faith may not have had anyone to guide her in the use of her powers. Like Sandi, it may have alienated the people around her, if not frighten them, considering the nature of her ability (ex "no one should have that much power"). Assuming there was such a case, she may have tried to give Sandi what she didn't have: a friend, a guide to help her hone her ability, maybe both.
Fluffy wrote:Who's to say that girl wasn't from school?
I said, "not unless Faith shagged all of 'em on school grounds."

I doubt Artemis Academy has beds on campus, and it hasn't been said whether there's a dorm there. So it'd seem, to me, she was either at Faith's place, or Faith was at hers. Also, if Faith's powers allegedly sync with the school's to influence the girls into wanting her, then it'd follow that her influence would only be a factor while they were on campus.

So what about the ones she's been shaggin' off campus? Wouldn't her influence be broken then, if that were the case? And how would you explain Ash, when she was bangin' him in the park, not on school grounds.
Last edited by Gotoh on Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the_Bear
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:32 am

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by the_Bear »

Gotoh wrote: This is essentially every point I've argued concerning Faith's character, but you've summed them up better than I did (and in a single post, at that). High five, my man! \M/
High five! \M/
vampire hunter D wrote: You know, noone's askd yet, but what kind of background does Faith have that's made her so needy to be loved she'd use her mind powers (consciously or not) to make people love her? That can't just be narcissism
I wonder if it has something to do with her powers? As a really powerful esper kid she might have gone out of control few times, and was forced to get special training program early? She was quick to befriend young "weirdo" Sandi and help her, maybe she felt kinship with her? Just idle speculation...

User avatar
Fluffy
Posts: 3603
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Fluffy »

vampire hunter D wrote:If that's all it was how are the Hellrune coven not affected? Seems like it would need to be more gradual and require lots of exposure.

Not that it matters, you and dex seem to be talking about a different comic than the one discussed on this forum.
Nope - we're discussing the same comic; we're just not following the same mindset of the pro-Faith group.

And easy answer to your question about the Hellrune Coven? They're not human, they're witches. (they perhaps have a natural immunity to Faith's mind mojo).
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

Varanus
Posts: 1127
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:23 am

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Varanus »

As I said in my reply to The Nick (some may have missed it as its the last post on the previous page) that seems relevant here regarding the whole "did Faith try to rape Melissa" thing:

Was it attempted rape? I don't think so, but it is definitely an example of something that the writers have stated in the past that Faith views as ethically okay but that normal people may not see as okay. We have confirmation Faith does not intentionally make people love her, but at the same time it has long been admitted Faith's sense of morality is not the norm.

That is we get into a much more gray area when Faith somehow gets herself and Mel naked in the water and tries to lead her to admit that she loves her (which Mel plainly does not). That Mel acts very out of character (have we ever seen her do that "I... I..." stuff before or since? ) until fade-out-girl appears is what causes many readers to think Faith was doing something to Mel's mind to make her more receptive to her advances, something more than just giving her a nice scenery.

Jeivar
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 6:19 pm

Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Post by Jeivar »

Gotoh wrote:
the_Bear wrote: ....
Faith for me seems to want to be a good "guy", a heroine, like she thinks Tiffany kinda is, she just is too blinded by her huge ego, even if she starts to recognize this as a problem, she doesn't seem to know how to start dealing with it. She does seem to have a moral "core" , some kind of code of conduct she never crosses, though it could be a bit stricter, and what's important she doesn't seem to be malicious. Faith could make a great heroine if she had enough character growth to deal with her faults, which she might get quite soon.
This is essentially every point I've argued concerning Faith's character, but you've summed them up better than I did (and in a single post, at that). High five, my man! \M/
the_Bear wrote:Edit: When Faith pulls the wand from Mel, she mentions that she would normally never touch someone's breast without their "delighted consent", which is quite telling. Faith's problem is that due to her ego and need for being loved by all she doesn't take "no for answer to the point of harassment, but it is clear she would never take "no" for "yes". She'll just stalk you until you change your mind.
Also agreed with you here, minus the bolded portion. Faith doesn't stalk anyone. In the event someone turns her down, she's let's them be and figures they'll come around on their own, if she gives 'em enough time.
Yeah, the way I've always seen Faith is that she would never do anything she considered wrong. It's just that getting constantly fawned over has skewed her ego to the point that she honestly believes everyone will come to love her, some just take a little longer to come around than others. "Hey, how could anyone NOT want my love and attention?" An alternative just doesn't really occur to her.
Until now, of course.
Varanus wrote: That is we get into a much more gray area when Faith somehow gets herself and Mel naked in the water and tries to lead her to admit that she loves her (which Mel plainly does not). That Mel acts very out of character (have we ever seen her do that "I... I..." stuff before or since? ) until fade-out-girl appears is what causes many readers to think Faith was doing something to Mel's mind to make her more receptive to her advances, something more than just giving her a nice scenery.
I always just took Faith's words about that situation at face value: Inhibitions DON'T exist in dreams. Dreams are totally consequence-free because they aren't REAL. If I dream about something that would completely freak me out in real-life, I just shrug it off when I wake up.
Mel was dreaming. The only unusual thing about it was that there was another person in the same dream. I saw Faith's dream-stunt as presumptuous and egotistical but nothing to invite loud comparisons to sex offenders.

Double post merged. The DAMNed

Locked