Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby The Nick » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:13 am

mikbuster wrote:Nick, that scenario eliminates all negative connotations, making it highly inaccurate. It is strongly implied by the part about a stray memory not being able to do that that she was stuck there. Melissa has repeatedly said she's not interested in Faith, so being naked in a pool with her probably wasn't high on her list of things she wanted. During combat not everything goes. If you gas a city of innocent people just to kill a handful of rebels, that's a war crime.
We're not talking about combat. We're talking about a sparring match.

I'd go so far as to say the comparison here is irrelevant. Nobody is approving of war crimes. What Faith is doing are mind-games at best. Furthermore, you can't prove that the 'stray memory implication' is actually saying she's stuck there. After all, nothing is forced. Theoretically, Faith could have done the same thing if the fight was in private where nobody was about (like the private hot springs she apparently has access to). If Melissa had stuttered and not answered immediately there while still having the ability to leave or run away or even just say no, people would STILL say it was a Faith rape-attempt despite the fact that she just asked a question and Melissa (who was only given a fraction of a moment to answer it and not nearly enough time to give a complex answer yet alone a complete sentence) didn't even answer.

It seems heavily implied to me that the accusations made by Faith are true - Melissa wants power and likes people who have it. This is what her character has always been about and Faith (whether she admits it or not) represents the apex of her desires, to be the real queen of the school.

David Johnston wrote:I only say partial because groping your opponent in the middle of combat under the assumption that she'll just forget about the fight and start making out with you is not at all Marquis of Queensbery approved.
Heh, true, true, but neither is INFINITE PUPPIES, summoning a BEAR to maul living breathing people, or breaking arms because you got caught.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby TheEighth » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:58 am

I wonder what Faith is thinking right now?

Honestly, I couldn't stand Faith because of her arrogance, and I'd be lying if I said that I didn't enjoy seeing Faith's confidence in herself be shaken to the core. The idea that the power and popularity that she gained was completely unfair and unwarranted is something she never even considered. She had the utmost assurance that she was popular, that everybody loved her. But now that she's been made to realize that her popularity was mostly false, that the Student Body was "coerced" into loving her, moreover just how much of the coercion was her doing, she doesn't know what to think

How many people genuinely like her for who she is?
If she's been unconsciously manipulating the Student Body into loving her, can any of the flings she had truly be called consensual?

Can't wait to see her try and sort herself out.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby Fluffy » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:18 pm

The Nick wrote:
mikbuster wrote:Nick, that scenario eliminates all negative connotations, making it highly inaccurate. It is strongly implied by the part about a stray memory not being able to do that that she was stuck there. Melissa has repeatedly said she's not interested in Faith, so being naked in a pool with her probably wasn't high on her list of things she wanted. During combat not everything goes. If you gas a city of innocent people just to kill a handful of rebels, that's a war crime.


We're not talking about combat. We're talking about a sparring match.


Actually, what was going on was specifically described as being combat quiz against espers; as it was combat day, after all.

So really, the battle should have ended after Faith knocked Melissa unconscious. Instead, Faith took advantage of the situation and attempted to seduce Melissa in a dream; where her inhibitions were down (if a person was drinking heavily, their inhibitions are down. If someone takes advantage of someone in that state, it's wrong. So, why would what Faith was trying to do in this case be any different from that?)

The Nick wrote:What Faith is doing are mind-games at best. Furthermore, you can't prove that the 'stray memory implication' is actually saying she's stuck there. After all, nothing is forced.


Then why would Faith be bothered by the fact that a rogue memory severed her connection to Melissa's mind? It pretty much hints that if Fade Out Girl had never appeared, Melissa would have been stuck there until she admitted her envy/love for Faith (and given the place they were at and how Faith was caressing her? Probably more). Given Faith's earlier behavior towards Melissa in the waking world, it would be ridiculous to think that's not one of the things she was aiming for with this dream setting of hers.

The Nick wrote:Theoretically, Faith could have done the same thing if the fight was in private where nobody was about (like the private hot springs she apparently has access to). If Melissa had stuttered and not answered immediately there while still having the ability to leave or run away or even just say no, people would STILL say it was a Faith rape-attempt despite the fact that she just asked a question and Melissa (who was only given a fraction of a moment to answer it and not nearly enough time to give a complex answer yet alone a complete sentence) didn't even answer.


Big difference being that they would be awake - not to mention Melissa wouldn't be caught dead being alone with Faith in the hotsprings, let alone naked with her and in such close proximity of one another, and would most certainly be able to speak her mind far easier than she had in the dreamscape, where she was clearly mesmerized by the scenery Faith presented her.

Faith says as such herself - dreams work differently than the real world. Doesn't help that a psychic esper with the nasty habit of tweaking the surroundings into her own image created the surroundings, which an unconscious mind would have far less of a chance resisting the influences it presents than a conscious mind would in the waking world (it explains how Melissa could shoot Faith's advances down repeated in the real world, but be a stuttering moron in an unconscious state).

The Nick wrote:It seems heavily implied to me that the accusations made by Faith are true - Melissa wants power and likes people who have it. This is what her character has always been about and Faith (whether she admits it or not) represents the apex of her desires, to be the real queen of the school


In the beginning, maybe - she has since abandoned this desire to be better than Faith, as she finds there are more important things in life than popularity (even though she doesn't like to admit it; as it took Tandy's truth massage to get that out of her).

The Nick wrote:
David Johnston wrote:I only say partial because groping your opponent in the middle of combat under the assumption that she'll just forget about the fight and start making out with you is not at all Marquis of Queensbery approved.
Heh, true, true, but neither is INFINITE PUPPIES, summoning a BEAR to maul living breathing people, or breaking arms because you got caught.


At least there were witnesses to these events, and someone there to put a stop to it if things got out of hand. In Faith's dream seduction, it took a rogue memory to put a stop to things, which Faith clearly wasn't expecting.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby jaimehlers » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:16 pm

dex drako wrote:our inhibitions do not keeping us from our true seleves they are our true selves. this is why after a night of drinking way to much and waking up next to some strange person or with some stupid tattoo people don't say "thank goodness I got drunk last night and did that." tho faith is right in a way with out our inhibitions we're nothing but mindless aminals incapable of of doing anything but acting base instincts. which why people who are high or drunk can't give permission when it come to things like saying yes or no to sex in the eye's of U.S. law.

Actually, no. Inhibitions don't make us who we are - they're restrictions on things that we might want to do, but don't feel we should do (for whatever reason). That's by definition, by the way. You can be an uninhibited person without being a mindless animal, as you claim here. Indeed, while alcohol and drugs can help to release inhibitions, an excess of alcohol or drugs actually inhibits our thought processes and makes us incapable of anything but base desires.

Inhibitions are generally not healthy, because they're attempts to restrain impulses perceived as bad rather than attempts to reform those impulses. In fact, restraining them has the potential to make them stronger and harder to resist, especially since you keep bottling up more and more of those bad feelings without doing anything about them. When I was younger, I had serious anger problems - and my solution for a while was to try to inhibit my anger and keep it bottled up. That just meant that when I did inevitably lose my temper, it was far more powerful and dangerous, because all of that bottled up anger came out all at once. So you know how I actually handled my anger problems? I learned to manage my temper, dealing with things that made me angry as they happened, and learned techniques that helped me maintain my ability to think rationally even when I was upset. Guess which works better?

I mean, when you get right down to it, inhibitions are nothing more than ways to attempt to control unwanted feelings and impulses. But they aren't healthy or constructive ways, because you don't actually deal with them - you just try to hide them away and pretend they don't exist. No different than trying to shove unwanted clutter under the bed or in the closet, and then having to deal with a much bigger problem when the mess gets too big to ignore.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby dex drako » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:13 am

jaimehlers wrote:Actually, no. Inhibitions don't make us who we are - they're restrictions on things that we might want to do, but don't feel we should do (for whatever reason). That's by definition, by the way. You can be an uninhibited person without being a mindless animal, as you claim here. Indeed, while alcohol and drugs can help to release inhibitions, an excess of alcohol or drugs actually inhibits our thought processes and makes us incapable of anything but base desires.


I'm sorry we seem to be using different meaning to these words and I'll get to that but I have to say your over all point is wrong. our inhibitions define us because a person is not measured by what they poissbly COULD do they are defined by limits they set for themselves. sure you can change you're inhibitions to fit the person you want to be but they're still defined by these new inhibitions.

what you're taking about are inhibitions that are out of control which is like a flood of water but floods doesn't mean all water is bad.

the human mind if nothing but a collection of impulses and ihibitions a balance of these two forces is good but either will becomes bad if out of balance. our impulses are our base needs and inhibitions are what control them so you don't eat your neighbors dog, kill someone that makes you mad or rape the next woman that walks by when you're horny. without inhibitions keeping impulses in check there would be no civilization which is why I said without inhibitions all we are nothing but mindless aminals.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby Bloody Vikings » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:53 am

There is one word in there in all-caps, so I know your keyboard isn't broken. Could you attempt to remove your inhibition to apply the "Shift" key in places deemed appropriate by common agreement of users of the English language?

It would make it far easier to attempt to follow your commentary.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby Gotoh » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:03 am

I know I said wasn't gonna post in this thread after the new strip was up, but what hey...

Fluffy wrote:So really, the battle should have ended after Faith knocked Melissa unconscious.


You're forgetting that Faith put herself under along with her, which is why she was slumped against the tree when they both "woke up". Also, we don't know how long they were in the shared dream since time passed differently there (Mel's body hadn't even hit the ground yet when Faith explained what was happening). In all likelihood, it was probably less than a minute in real time, since Mr. Delatorre didn't deem it long enough to declare the fight over, before they awoke.

Fluffy wrote:Instead, Faith took advantage of the situation and attempted to seduce Melissa in a dream; where her inhibitions were down (if a person was drinking heavily, their inhibitions are down. If someone takes advantage of someone in that state, it's wrong. So, why would what Faith was trying to do in this case be any different from that?)


Because Faith wasn't touching inappropriately, she wasn't having sex with her, or trying to take Melissa against her will. Instead, she created a picturesque dreamscape, they took a dip in the springs, where she asked her a couple of questions. End of.

Fluffy wrote:Then why would Faith be bothered by the fact that a rogue memory severed her connection to Melissa's mind? It pretty much hints that if Fade Out Girl had never appeared, Melissa would have been stuck there until she admitted her envy/love for Faith (and given the place they were at and how Faith was caressing her? Probably more).


Faith said herself: it shouldn't have been possible. Mentally, she's a giantess. The idea that something flimsy as a stray memory could sever the connection she had established with Melissa's subconscious was unthinkable. It'd be like breaking a steel beam with a toothpick. By all rights, it shouldn't be possible, yet it still happened.

Fluffy wrote:Faith says as such herself - dreams work differently than the real world. Doesn't help that a psychic esper with the nasty habit of tweaking the surroundings into her own image created the surroundings, which an unconscious mind would have far less of a chance resisting the influences it presents than a conscious mind would in the waking world (it explains how Melissa could shoot Faith's advances down repeated in the real world, but be a stuttering moron in an unconscious state).


True, Mel isn't attracted to her and wants nothing to do with her, but that still doesn't say Faith was doing any more than what we saw.

Fluffy wrote:
The Nick wrote:Heh, true, true, but neither is INFINITE PUPPIES, summoning a BEAR to maul living breathing people, or breaking arms because you got caught.

At least there were witnesses to these events, and someone there to put a stop to it if things got out of hand. In Faith's dream seduction, it took a rogue memory to put a stop to things, which Faith clearly wasn't expecting.


I'm pretty sure had Melissa said, "stop", or that she wanted out, Faith would have let her go. With the sole exception of the Layla incident, Faith does not consciously make anyone do anything against their will.

TCampbell wrote:She's pretty confident that her favorites will respond sooner or later, but that's because she's so hot and awesome, not because she's an insecure bully wrestling them into unwilling submission.


That last bit, and Cerise's track record of lying to get ahead is why I'm having a hard time buying her story.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby Geeno » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:21 am

One thing that seems to have been forgotten about Faith's dream seduction of Mel: It was a combat test. I get the impression that at AA ALL is fair in a combat test. Faith may have been multitasking - trying to seduce Melissa while trying to defeat her - but Faith's main goal was to render Mel helpless so she could be easily defeated. An esper trying to defeat someone with their mental powers is, almost by definition, going to be a tad mind-rapey.
This doesn't obviate the points being made by Faith's detractors, but it does need to be kept in mind that, in that instance, Faith was operating in "rules free" zone.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby jaimehlers » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:01 am

dex drako wrote:I'm sorry we seem to be using different meaning to these words and I'll get to that but I have to say your over all point is wrong. our inhibitions define us because a person is not measured by what they poissbly COULD do they are defined by limits they set for themselves. sure you can change you're inhibitions to fit the person you want to be but they're still defined by these new inhibitions.

You seem to have a belief (and a false belief no less) that a human being is a slave to their impulses, and without inhibitions, they'll run rampant. To be blunt, this is the same kind of nonsense that many religious people throw around to justify their own particular beliefs. "If you don't have (insert deity here) in your life, then you don't have morality, and thus you're an amoral beast instead of a person." It's that sort of nonsense that leads people astray.

dex drako wrote:what you're taking about are inhibitions that are out of control which is like a flood of water but floods doesn't mean all water is bad.

If you got that from what I wrote, then you clearly didn't understand it at all.

dex drako wrote:the human mind if nothing but a collection of impulses and ihibitions a balance of these two forces is good but either will becomes bad if out of balance. our impulses are our base needs and inhibitions are what control them so you don't eat your neighbors dog, kill someone that makes you mad or rape the next woman that walks by when you're horny. without inhibitions keeping impulses in check there would be no civilization which is why I said without inhibitions all we are nothing but mindless aminals.

This is almost completely meaningless. Humans are nothing but inhibitions and impulses, and without those inhibitions, we'd be mindless? Frankly, I don't think you know the first thing about what you're talking about, let alone enough to make authoritative statements on the subject. I mean, really. You think a person would just randomly eat a pet animal or rape a woman if they didn't have inhibitions to restrain them from doing so?

Let me ask you something. In this simple network of impulses and inhibitions that you believe in, do you have a place for rational thought, for logic, for morality? Or are you just going to claim that those are 'inhibitions' too?
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby vampire hunter D » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:16 am

don't bother. dex has obviously argued himself into a corner and like many on the internet, refused to admit his logic is flawed and is now doing intellectual backflips trying to argue his way out. You're not gonna reach him. Just ignore him.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby Varanus » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:16 am

jaimehlers wrote:Let me ask you something. In this simple network of impulses and inhibitions that you believe in, do you have a place for rational thought, for logic, for morality? Or are you just going to claim that those are 'inhibitions' too?

Morality certainly could be defined as an inhibition. You may want to do something that you know you could get away with, but your own beliefs about it being wrong inhibit you from doing it. For instance a part of me may like to take whatever I want if I could avoid punishment, but the knowledge that even if I wasn't punished I would be hurting other people in one way or another by taking those things inhibits me from following that impulse.

It seems to me that if this discussion continues both parties should define what they mean by inhibitions.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby Searcher » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:53 am

I think you guys have broke a record ... 221 replies 15 pages :-o
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby vampire hunter D » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:57 am

Not yet

The comic where Rain shapeshifted did 244.
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby dex drako » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:07 am

Before I get started let me follow Varanus advice and make my definition of inhibition clear and that can best be summed up by definition B1 from Merriam webster dictionary



so yes jaimehlers by this definition inhibitions and morals are more or less interchangeable words tho personally I feel inhibitions goes farther.

jaimehlers wrote:You seem to have a belief (and a false belief no less) that a human being is a slave to their impulses, and without inhibitions, they'll run rampant. To be blunt, this is the same kind of nonsense that many religious people throw around to justify their own particular beliefs. "If you don't have (insert deity here) in your life, then you don't have morality, and thus you're an amoral beast instead of a person." It's that sort of nonsense that leads people astray.

lucky for you I’m a lifelong atheist so there will be to take about hypothetical sky daddies. No morals are a function of empathy towards others and not a fear of punishment from some all-knowing god. But I will tell you Mankind is still an instinct driven animals. We like to think of ourselves as better but we’re not.

Now I’ll admit my post way a very simplified way to put it but I thought it got the point through but since it clearly didn’t let me try to make it clearer. Inhibitions arise from rational thought as a way to control our base impulses. So without to act without inhibitions mean you have to be acting without rational thought.

So to answer you’re quresion.
jaimehlers wrote:You think a person would just randomly eat a pet animal or rape a woman if they didn't have inhibitions to restrain them from doing so?

yes I believe a 100% a person would eat a pet animal without inhibitions a dog’s just meat when you get right down to it. It’s only our rational thought (higher brain functions in other words) that stops us from doing so. But without Inhibitions rational thought has nothing to stop our base instincts from taking over.
vampire hunter D wrote:don't bother. dex has obviously argued himself into a corner and like many on the internet, refused to admit his logic is flawed and is now doing intellectual backflips trying to argue his way out. You're not gonna reach him. Just ignore him.
maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to judge people just because you don’t understand them hunter D. next ask for a clarification before you pass judgment on people okay?

Bloody Vikings wrote:There is one word in there in all-caps, so I know your keyboard isn't broken. Could you attempt to remove your inhibition to apply the "Shift" key in places deemed appropriate by common agreement of users of the English language?

It would make it far easier to attempt to follow your commentary.


sorry my writing style is a result of the days when my obsessive compulsive disorder was at its worst. When “simple things like pressing the shift, or any key for that matter, was a production that could take over 10 minutes or more. Things capitalizing and such went out the window in favor of just hope to get my point across as fast as I could. I’m better now but I still delete and rewrite word for word whole sentences because my OCD didn’t like the way they “feel”

I’ll try and do better.

Quote fixed. The DAMNed
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Re: Magick Chicks 20-09-13 Even her enemies

Postby Absinthe Green » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:26 am


TBeholder, TBeholder, TBeholder...
So predictable.
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