Eerie Cuties 12-12-12 Let me make this up to you

[Schmorgluck]

She's accusing Ace of unsollicited groping, which is sexual assault, no matter how you turn it. A friend of mine once punched a guy in the face for something like that.

[sparrow925]

"Sexual abuse is any sort of non-consensual sexual contact." http://www.pandys.org/whatissexualabuse.html Certainly, people who undergo violent abuse or have more trouble exorcising themselves from instances of abuse need more resources to deal with their situation and the aftermath. But that does not mean that a one-time occurrence is not under the umbrella term. What we are doing here is arguing semantics.

Even if the words 'sexual assault' did not apply, we would still be talking about the same actions. One person forcing another to touch them in an inappropriate manner, and then lying about it for their own purposes. Is it on the end of the spectrum that would NOT involve a prison sentence? Yes! Is it still a serious topic that has contextual implications in the real world? YES. /That/ is what the discussion was aimed at. Not defining who is a victim and who is not.

Re: "Calling 'minor offenses' sexual abuse debases severe sexual abuse": There is no finite pool of 'legitimacy' that is deleted by reporting that a groping was unwanted.
The only way of delegitimizing sexual abuse is to insinuate that there is 'legitimate sexual abuse' and 'non-legitimate sexual abuse,' which is telling people whose experiences fall into your definition of the latter that they have no right to make a claim of abuse.

[sparrow925]

Hmm... after sleeping on it, I feel that this has gotten a bit derailed. I wanted to point out that (regardless of how we individually perceive the motivations and reactions of the characters) the switcheroo pulled contributes to an all-too common narrative that demeans the credibility of young women without evidence. A narrative that does real harm. I do not think that redefining 'sexual abuse' pulls any credibility from this argument. Although how readers relate to Mel's actions and Ace's situation has a good deal to do with how unwanted touching is adressed in society, I do not want to take a nose-dive into discussing sexual abuse. Defensiveness and pointless argument seem to lie that way. There are plenty of resources on the internet for people who would like to educate themselves on this front.

What I will say is this- and I'm not accusing anyone in this conversation of actually speaking to a victim like this, I would just like these to be my last words, since the convo took a turn for the personal:

The only people who get to define specific instances of sexual assault are the victims; they are the only people who are actually hurt by us randomers attempting to specifically define 'sexual abuse' as 'this and not that.' There should be automatic compassion for anyone who has been mentally affected by someone deciding they have the right to another person's body, not dismiss their experience based on 'well that wouldn't bother me, people are so PC- it was just a little fun,' 'come on, waaaay worse things have happened, I'm going to save my compassion for someone who deserves it,' or 'man, people will make crazy stories up to get a little pity.' I think we can all agree those reactions would be unacceptable.

/sparrow out

[mikbuster]

I may just be reading that wrong, but while a possible victim shouldn't be attacked for reporting something, the person being accused of something shouldn't suffer any consequences either if there's no evidence.

[sparrow925]

(Agreed! I was stressing the first half of that. And judges or juries, if involved in a case of this situation, would make a huge effort to become super educated on the matter. We are not either in 99% of discussions. I'm not sure it is our duty to make those calls.)

[TBeholder]

2) I'm completely confused by what you said.

I mean only to express my agreement with some musings of Leto Atreides I, that's all.

...Anyone else think that portraying one of the only instance of 'unwanted touching' as 'young girls feigning sexual assault for manipulative reasons' is INCREDIBLY harmful writing?

No, why?

The fall-back that "Young girls fake sexual assault for their own selfish reasons all the time" is why the excuse of "She's making it up!" is believed over the girl's testimony in an astounding number of actual abuse cases. Fictional characters acting that out strengthens the cultural impression that lying about assault is the norm, when it is in fact a minority of cases. I'm just.... in disbelief that this comic would perpetuate that inaccurate stereotype

Ah, you mean it's bad propaganda. Yes, good writing usually does not fit for this purpose. Probably because believability depends on the world generally "working" like the real events, which usually for some reason also don't fit, at least until everything inconvenient is properly cut off. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
I, of course, may be wrong, so if the above contains something more substantial than flag-waving, may we please know your approach to determining the amount of "actual cases" in an arbitrary set of "A's word vs. B's word" cases? I'm methodologically curious sometimes.

Yesterday I decided to register for the forums to start a discussion about the prevalence of

The conviction of "community organizers" and flag-wavers that writers are for some reason obligated to heed them even more than the rest of the world, while puzzling, is also as typical as trying to turn everything into a tribune.

There are no grey areas, only black and white.

And aren't we all so lucky that finally someone is ready enlighten our poor little brains this precious 1-bit color depth picture? ;)

In America, you can be charged with misdemeanor sexual assault if some 3rd party decides that your hug is too lingering or inappropriate.

On that side, it's probably also not a bug. So, uh, returning to the subject of webcomics...

Indeed, many are so fearful of the extremes that they take even the slightest things far too seriously and end up hurting their own cause.

Or not really their own. Yup.

[Artemisia]

Ok. I'm pretty brain dead today ;)

[Schmorgluck]

For the record, I don't mind such a piece of scum as Melissa being featured in a work of fiction. She's been characterized as evil from the very start, anyway.

I'm more bothered by people who state that what she's doing is some kind of playful mischief or something, that it's acceptable teenage behavior. It's not. For that action alone, calling her a whore would be an insult to whores. If a friend of mine pulled that kind of shit on anyone, I'd immediately stop considering them a friend, and would actually publicize as much as I can of their strategies.

[Don Alexander]

Your interpretation of what is "evil" is in serious need of some self-adjustment, Schmorgluck (methinks). Yep, she's been portrayed as quite a bee-otch for most of the series. I'd even say that in MC, we are seeing her slowly redeem herself, whereas in EC, she remains the antagonist, at least in comparison to the goody-two shoes main cast. I'm far from lauding her behavior here (and I'm sure it will fly back into her face later on, and it will be hilarious, too!), but "evil"?

Read the news. There are more evil things out there than guilting a guy into a date.

[Schmorgluck]

And there are more evil things out there than fondling a random girl in the subway. What's your point?

[Varanus]

That such an action makes someone a jerk and even liable to a criminal charge, but not necessarily "evil."

Anyway, I would say Melissa's actions are much more manipulative than sexually abusive. We're talking about a second of contact that she intended and the other saw as accidental, played up via a magical crying spell. Not exactly comparable to any real random gropings from somebody out for a cheap sexual thrill.

Quote removed. The DAMNed

[TBeholder]

Such concerns will seem trivial with boy hormones... right? I still suspect in Melissa's own head it looks like she does the boy "not in her league" a favour.

[Tako]

I don't care what happens as long as Ace and Brooke remain a happy couple at the end of this.

I would be angrier with Mel (for putting at risk one of the few happy and healthy relationships in their universe we are aware of) but, given her current semi-Butt Monkey status (except when she is against Cerise), she will probably end battered and depressed when Ace tells her that he is with Brooke and doesn't want to do anything with anybody else (Mel will put the fault on the loss of her doll figure instead of her horrible personality, of course).

[Schmorgluck]

she is with Brooke

Marvellous typo. I'm sure Artemisia will approve.

[Tako]

Already fixed. And I don't care if Ace is a girl or a boy as long as he/she is with Brooke. Nice people belong together.

Quote removed. The DAMNed